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Inside the Margins
Inside the Margins

Episode · 1 year ago

Final moments of Tyshon Jones

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this episode we look deeper into the death of Tyshon Jones,  we adress the new Officer Conduct policies, and the RASE Commission report 

Marginalized groups can be the target of negative beliefs, behaviors or judgments from others. On this show we seek out marginalized voices and perspectives and tackle some of the conflicts and issues these groups face. Now is the time to have your voice heard. This is inside the margins with your host Matt Wilson. Well, it's another Monday, which means it's another day for inside the margins. Good afternoon, it is met and of course in Rochester we always have a lot to talk about. We got some more information on Taishon Jones. Will share that momentarily. Also, officer conduct policies. Those have been updated. Will talk about that as well. Also, the CDC has changed their recommendations from six feet apart to three feet apart. Is that going to affect our schools? We don't know, but we will talk about that. And also there's I'm sure there's other things. Will try to get into it. Before we get into any of that, let's go ahead and bring in my favorite reporter. It's betty singer from the minority reporter. Hello and good afternoon to you, Patty. Oh my gosh, favorite reporter of the pressure and the pressure and pressure always keep it on. You better. That's what I got to do. Oh my Gosh, oh my gosh, is there is an enough? I have it from you. Thank you, Matt. In the headlines that line the reporter was working on. The All Times Association is hosted its ten annual health symposium to help black and African Americans age in good health and with dignity. The mayor recalled the grief at her mother's passing from Covid nineteen at the one year ceremony marking Covid nineteen in the Rochester community. The report from the independent investigator from hired by City Council to look into Daniel prude's death found that key city officials new within weeks of the death of Mr Prude, who was Taishan Jones. His family and his pastor shared the life of the man who was shot by shot and killed by rpd. And more on the Tayshon Jones Story. Gates police video showed an officer helping Mr Jones and the twelve hours before he died. Willie lightfoot, vice president of city council, is expanding his work with the National League of cities. The RPDI's mad mentioned before, has issued new policies on officer conduct in national and editorial and open letter to President Biden about black people and the pandemic, and also proposed recycling legislation deals a devastating blow to community newspapers and Reverend Michael Vaughan writes, and something to think about. There is more to it and we will let you see. We that you read for yourself what the Reverend Vaughan has to say. Matt. Thank you, Patty. As always and and as always, you can find the full versions of those headlines on the minority reporter dotnet. The full versions of the Hilland headlines that Pattaye just talked about can be found there. You will also have the option to subscribe. All you have to do is click on the subscription button. there. You have the option to get digital or hard copy versions of the paper. So whichever one is your preference, the options therefore you. I subscribe to the minority reporter. That CON's a great way to get yourself informed about what's going on in the community. Also, if you have any comments, questions or suggestions, you can submit them to the minority report also by setting an email to editor at minority reporter DOTNET. Again, that's editor at minority report DOTNET. They'll take into consideration which your suggestions are, comments are and also if you have missed any past episodes up inside the margins, you can go to inside the margins RADIOCOM. All episodes are available there. We are also available on iheartcom and also wherever you get your podcasts. All Right, race, commission officer, conduct, distancing by the CDC and more. We'll talk about all that. This is inside the margins. Welcome back to you inside the margins. I am here with Patty and you know what we patty and I both always mentioned we like it when we get feedback. We like the fact that we have listeners listening and interacting with what we're talking about. So that that's fantastic, and I actually did receive a sublicit. Your feedback, Patty, sent to us on our inside the margins radiocom site. Again, any feedback that you want to send you can send that to our site. You can send it to the minority reporter. Either way. We love to hear your feedback. But so the feedback I got was hey, Matt, listening to your show and the potato head stuff, you're a little off because Mr Potato head isn't really canceled. It was just some rumors. If you go to their website and see the announcement, they have just rebranded the whole thing as potato head to include Mr Missrs and potato head family under one brand. And they still...

...have and they still called them all that on the box. So it's just rebranding. They haven't really canceled potato head. They Mr Potato Head. They just call it potato head now as far as all the other portions of the potato family are concerned. So appreciate that from our listener, Patty. Yes, thank you. Yep. All right, let's go ahead and get into our topics today. So the first thing I want to talk about is the the topic that is still on a lot of people's mind is what happened in front of the open door mission with these shooting of Tyshon Jones. Pardon me, I know there's been a little bit more information that came out, Patty, and regards so what happened and also what the gates police we're talking about as far as there his involvement with them over in that area. So yeah, so it was I mean whole the whole thing is was tragic. So when the video was made public, when Roches spoos department made the video of the fatal encounter with Mr Jones public, obviously lots of people saw that, including all the law enforcement agencies and in Gates. They saw it and realized that they had had, that was the person that they had had an encounter with, you know, about three four o'clock that previous Tuesday. So the shooting was overnight. was a very early Wednesday morning, about three am on March ten, so this was march ninth. In the mid afternoon there had been a call from done tower over on Uspen support road that there was a person there who was trespassing. He had apparently, according to the reports, followed someone home from a family dollar and you know the person must have lived at done tower or appeared to. And you know Mr Jones at that point was there and couldn't go in. It was not a guest. So what what do you do? And in our current system you call one one because that's the that's a dispen. That maybe change, I mean you still may call one one and they may send it someplace else, but for now one one is called. Police get dispatched and so there is there is video. You can see this in many places on many new sites, of this and you can read read about it in minority reporter about what what transpired. And the officer to one officer responds. Then a second officer comes up. So there's two bits of body camera footage. And the first officers, officer, Michael Furia, who encounters Mr Jones and they have a conversation. You know, what's what's going on? What's what's happening here? What's up? Right, right, and so Mr Jones responds that, you know, I'm I'm I'm homeless and I don't have and I don't have any, any, any shoes. So the officer says, well, we gotta, I can't have you walking around and tearing up your feet. We got to take you someplace safe. Right, right. Comes Jones talks about well, you know, I'll go to take me to jail or whenever. Now we're not here for jail. So they the officers, officer Furia, convinces him that he knows at the shelter nearby. Let me take you. Conversation ensues. Okay, fine, so they go and as the body cameras running the whole time. So you hear conversation in the car. They get to the shelter they need. He's again it's Jones is still barefoot. So apparently the rule of the shelters you have to have shoes to come in. Okay, so you know from the from the from the Line of God is good, God will provide. Right. There's a pair of shoes sitting at the fence line of the property. At that the shelter is so the somebody, a staff member, goes, well, go see if those shoes will work. So the officer season runs and gets the shoes, brings them back. They don't fit properly. Mr Jones is kind of reluctant to wear them. So there's about five or six minutes or so where the officer is trying to convince them to put on his shoes so we can go inside and have a safe place. Right right the end of the video he agrees to put them on. He goes in and the last scene, the last frames of the video, is of Mr Jones saying thank you to the officer walking in and you sort of see the boots as he's walking the door and those are the shoes by which the gates police identified. So, wait a minute, that's the man we were with ours before and I don't I'm not quite sure how the identification worked at the time that they had a news confert Rochester police had a news conference. They had not identified Mr Jones. I don't know if gates police help them do that, if it was all the medical examine or not not quite sure how all that worked out, but they were able to identify. So in...

...the video when he's with the officer, the officer says what's your name? He says Tushan and the officer says if you can call me Mike. s they have a conversation and then when they are at the shelter, the staff at the shelter, I guess they have a book or something that checks people who've been there before, whether there any issue whatever. And so what's your name? And then he says his full name at the at the shelter. So and that's you know, he walks in and you think, you think, you would think that is the end of the story and as we know, it was not. Yeah, which is unfortunate because it sounds like in the beginning everything seemed to be going in a pretty decent direction. He would seem to be approached by people who were pretty helpful in the beginning, right, trying to offer him shoes and ways to get into the shelter and and the back and forth wasn't really confrontational. It was more of a just kind of a talking to understand what was going on with the situation was. So obviously things changed at some point, but it seems like the beginning of his travels down to the open door mission weren't terrible. Now you know obviously. Well, Hang I say, get back up. So that the mission he was the shelter was taking to was not the open door. The first one was not right. First one was not the open door mission. So something happened. According to what the timeline that was pieced together from from gates and from our PD, that was release a Quist of the timeline. At some point they think about thirty he left the shelter he was at, wandered through, wandered from and that shelter was off of Childi Avenue. So then is somehow getting hit walking or getting his way to count downtown. Right, somehow he's alleged to get into the open to omission. They say he took some knives and that's where things got notes to police. They take the call for that. They come around, they see him, try to get him to drop the knife, try to you know, are backing up down. It's an industrial street, cascade drive, West Maine, and the it's it's put it this way. It's not going as well for RPD as it went for gates. Yeah, it sounds like it was a tailor to situations. Unfortunately. It's also speaks the mental health. I don't know at what point, especially with the intervening with the gates police, what the with the first shelter. I don't know if they felt any need to have any type of mental evaluation for this gentleman, because it didn't seem like there wasn't any type of issue that they needed to call that kind of back up to to make sure he was okay mentally at that point. So I don't know what change between when he was in gates and then when he got downtown. Well, so on the on the body camera footage, the first office, who re who responds? Ask the second officer follow me down to the shelter. This maybe a seventy eight and I think that is that's the call for some kind of but you know, know, so everybody talks about Oh you got to call now you can't. Gates is not the city. The pick team is only response to the city, the person in Christy team. But on the body camp footage there is no call for the fifteen. Mean, Mr Jones is cooperative. They're they're talking. He's in the car. They have a conversation in the car. He's asked the officer what kind of music he likes, as you have a favorite song, you know. So from the officer standpoint, would there be any reason for him to call for somebody like that? Things are he's he's agreeing. Let's go to the shelter. They the shelter. I mean, what more is that officer supposed to do? and IT ISS has to mean it to be as you said, it appears to be going back. Something happened at some point, and I don't know when that will come out. At a news conference at the family held they did talk. They did mention that that Mr Jones did have some emotional distress issues. His cousin is is the Reverend Myra Brown. She wrote a letter, to believe, with city council and which she mentioned. You know her cousin's development of some mental health issues as a as a young adult. The Not a lot of detail. So, yes, I mean this. This points another this is another highlight of how mental health issues are are handled. When you talk to mental health people who advocate for individuals who have mental health diagnosis or just problems issue situations, they will say that people in mental health distress are more likely to be a danger to themselves than others. Yeah, yeah, that may be true. But again, a person who is advancing with a...

...knife, you know, I don't know what that officer supposed to do to to wait that situation out. People have said, you know, in second in looking at at both sets of videos. Well do you does the officer get back in the car and just follow him? Does he try to maybe bump him with the car, you know, just to distract him? Right now? That run, I'm over with, but just do something with the car to turn on all turn on the siren or somehow break whatever kind of concentration he's having. I don't know. I'm not a mental health professional. I don't know that that makes things better or worse. And if it makes things worse, then you're criticized for well, why did you do that? Didn't you know it was going to make things worse? Yeah, these are absolutely no in situations for the officer and the gates officers. The Gates officers look great on this. No one's going to dispute that. And conversations I've had with people and looking at that video, I say there but for the grace of God, go the gates police officers. Not all of their calls are going to end this way. Right, right, you know, it's the nature of it's the nature of dealing with with people who were in some kind of distress when you do with them. Look at Matt you can call the police for something relatively minor, but they're going to come to your house and you're not going to be your best self because you're in some kind of distress, even if it's relatively minor in the scheme of things. So police are always dealing with someone in some kind of distress, some level of distress. Yep, well, pet number one, I'm always my best self. I don't know what you're talking about, but now I'm joking. No, you're right. The only the only question, and it's still it still remains from the first time we talked about this because I don't question it, and you mentioned about the incident and you're right, the gates police to look obviously a lot better than the roster police right now in this incident. Two things I guess I'd ask, and I don't know if this is something that could have been done, were his mental health issues documented and could they have run a check to see that that they were documented, that that he's a person who has historically had mental health issues? So so you know, there may be a different approach that might be needed for this gentleman. And my second question to you, Patty, is still the one that we brought up the first time. What your kind of answered last week too, but I'll just bring it up again. The whole Taser situation where only one officer or none of the officers that were responding to the situation the city had a taser. All them only had actual firearms on them. Shouldn't that be looked at also, if they can find a way to maybe at least make sure one or more of the responding officers to a call like that are armed with that, because obviously a gun's going to do a lot more damage than knife, especially from far away. So so I those are the two things that I bring up that maybe we can look at and I'm not sure what the answers on those would be either. Right, I don't know if the Taser issue is a funding issue. If, if any issues of moving money away from the police department that we heard about, you know, in the last few months, sure has affected their, you know, purchasing power. So they don't have them. An officer does have to be specially certified to you, Suzer. Right. So there could be a couple things. I mean officers have left the RPD. There may be some who have left the RPD who were certified in Taser use and they weren't, you know. So you just had fewer, smaller pool to choose from that night getting there. You know, the issue is how much? How much time do you do? You do you buy here? There's a school of thought that says the officer should have gotten back in the car just sort of driven alongside him, monitor him or whatever. Granted, it's three in the morning, it's not three in the afternoon. There aren't a lot of people on the street, but the man still has a weapon. Right. There could be another passer by. This is where public safety, because how will we defining public safety here? Yeah, there is a there is a person who has a knife on the street and police know about that. How can they monitor this person so that the person is not a danger to himself, which apparently had been, because they said he had been cutting himself? First, right, exactly, and others? How? How much? Well, what's the what's the gap that you that you give that? And what if he had run down a street away from them and now you don't know where he is with a knife? I mean this, as I said before, this is an absolute no win situation for the officers who have to make these decisions in very real time. We have the luxury of now, what, ten days later? Yeah, right, right, talking about this and now again people talk about training for police officers. These are all parts of training things. I'm sure the scenario gets will get played out in in services, in academies and things like that,...

...so that the more these kinds of situations are talked about in training, the more they are aware of people are aware of them, you know, in their own minds and and other types of solutions for this. But Rochester believes have a man with a knife walking down the street and they don't know what he's going to do. Right, and he's not. He apparently has not been either aware of their comments to drop it or has chosen not that we don't know right and he continues to close the gap on an officer right right now. And I don't I don't dispute any of that. I guess that the only thing I keep thinking of is again, I we don't know if this is the situation. I'm just we're I'm talking strictly and hypothetical. This is not there's no proof at this was the case. But, however, we've seen incidents. Where are you here? You've heard of suicide by a copy for right, or or heard that expression right right, where someone who is distraught, a distress, who is who is, who wants to end their life, knows that if they're going to charge an officer with the weapon, there's a good chance they're going to be fired upon and then that could be a way to end turn it through life. Now. I'm not again. I want to make sure I remember. Don't know this yet. You don't know this. This is not. This is not. No one to saying that this is the case, but I'm saying. So someone who's cutting themselves first and then the sides to a to a approach an officer with a knife. There's a again, I don't know. We don't know this man's mental capacity. You don't. We don't know his mental state. We don't know if he's in a different place. We have no idea. But a person who can think commonly is unless you are some sort of knife throwing expert, there's a good chance that you're going to be shot down before you get anywhere near an officer with a knife. And I mean we just we just don't know. We don't know what happen. We don't we don't know his history. We don't know. But and and we may never know these things because of Hippah, because of privacy laws. We just don't know. I mean his grandmother, it's said at the news conference that they had, you know, her grandson's life will not be in vain. If there are things that can be done to again advanced the mental health conversation, that that should be done. But this is it's it's incredibly sad. It's whole it's just incredibly, incredibly sad. Is All the way through a family who tried to get help for a loved one, what did the system do? I mean, this is again, it's just and these are the things. I think that things like bas commission, like the moneral kind of legislature, which last week had hearing about mental health and the forensic intervention team, and I think now people in positions of authority in the community are trying to make difference here. But I sometimes think that everybody's just in a frenzy over this and I'm wondering what what are the concentrated, thoughtful steps being taken, versus everybody saying we have to do something, we have to do something, we have to do something. Well, what's the something? And I'm leading to are we leading to potentially better outcomes, or are we just doing something because people want excuse us to do something? Right? You know what, here's the thing. We'll take a break and we'll talk about our next topic in a minute. But in all the recent incidents that we have talked about in regards to someone being fatally life's being ended and police of AOLVEMN, you know, being a part of it, a lot of it, a lot of it comes to mental health. Right, mental health. There's a lot to do with a lot of these incidents. So the one thing I will say is this what's been happening over the last few months as definitely shunning a light that that there, even though you know reform with the police and all that, obviously look at that training. But mental health is really a big issue and that's something that we really need to focus on. Is is the mental health is aspect of this. So at the one year ceremony of Covid I talked to Documentos and you know, my usual question was here here I am again to fuck about. Well, what you know, what would you do? What? And he said and he said the pandemic has put a focus on mental health, mental health, and he said for four years mental health has been overlooked. I mean I can remember previous job I had writing mental health and it just in writing then and people saying it's been overlooked. I can remember. I don't know, it's got to be made me ten, twelve years ago now mental health parity laws will passed as far as health insurers had to pay for mental health. Apparently at that time mental health parity will pay for mental health like we pay for physical health. No, because at the time you would get, say, twelve visits a year for a mental health provider, but you could go to get your knee looked at. You know your orthopedic injury, right. How many? How many times could you go for that? Yeah, so, no, I mean parity wasn't really parody and...

I think we're still still dealing with that. And Mental Health is is considered lesser to physical health, and that, I said it years ago, is wrong. I'll say it now. It's wrong because mental health is health. Not Have Mental Health? If you are not able to recognize your emotions in your behavioral responses to situations, how do you have much physical health? Yep, you and I both agree at that. Always have and I always will agree at that. All right, Patty, we're to take a break when we come back. You know what, speaking of police officers, there's some new policies and officer conduct and we're will talk about that when we come back. All right, don't go anywhere, Patty, that we're right back. This is inside. The march has welcome back to inside the margins and Patty has stuck it out. So thank you, Patty, for not running away from me. I appreciate that. All right, so I wanted to transition because we were talking about officer involvement with Tayshon Jones in regards to the shooting it in front the oper remission. Also in the news a few days ago the roster police depart apartment as issued some new policies on officer conduct. Patty, and I know that the minority reporter did a story in that as well. I believe you were asure the person who did a story, so why don't you tell us what that's all about? So they are doing. The Roger's folice department is issuing these series of policies. They're rolling them out. The first two were a duty to intervene and a choke hold band. For the choke hold band, those had been banned by RPD. But what the deputy executive chief, Andre Anderson, says that now this this is codified, this this band so under that it is the basically the kind of the headlines on that that officers are prohibited from using choke holds except in extreme circumstances where deadly physical forces authorized. The policy includes information regarding the state penal law under aggravated strangulation. The band is for any method of restricting the flow of blood to the brain by compressing the sides of the neck where the corrod arteries are located. In the corod arteries are two main arteries that feed blood to the to the brain. And the duty to intervene is that all members, and this goes if you are an officer and there's a sergeant or somebody up higher up than you, you can go up the chain and talk to that person and say hey, wait a minute. So all members have a duty to intervene and in quoting the policy to prevent or stop any unreasonable use of force or other misconduct. Members failing to intervene can can result in discipline or remedial measures. The any intervention has to be reported as soon as practical and supervisors must address the behavior. But it says the due to intervene is when it is safe and feasible to do so. So with the news conference that they had about this eye and I think maybe one other person asked about what does that mean, and there really wasn't a good answer for when it is safe and feasible to do so, because if you're seeing something that you should intervene on, it seems to be like that's when you need to intervene because you everybody needs to be safe. Right. So if something looks like it is escalating, it will it's not safe for the person upon which it's being escalated. That's a horrible sentence, but you know. So when is it? When is it safe? So one of the officials from the RPD who was there said, well, when it's when it's safe for everybody. You, the Intervener, the person need to intervene on, and then the citizen. Right. I didn't get a really good answer about when it is safe. refusible to do so. So I wasn't real thrilled with that. So the police accountability board weighed in with a with a comment, and Police Accountability Board said that they they were not consulted in the development of the changes and they said that the policies do not create any new disciplinary sanctions. So that sort of the other side of this. Now urpd is, you said, coming out with these in a series. So the next ones will relate to mental hygiene, detension and D escalation. Those, I believe, are going to come out this week. You don't have a date or time just yet for those. Other policies will address use of force in juvenile detention. The policies are developed. Over the past year or so they've been these issues have been brought to the attention the RPD and they are addressing them in that sense. So how were you going to be trained on this? Is this going to be more than eight minutes at roll call? The deputy executive chief, executive...

...deputy chief, talked about they want to bring in trainers. They want to make this more than just handing out a piece of paper at roll call. Gotcha again. We will, we will say right now. You know, the thing I think about is when you talk about the whole choke, whole thing, so so things that we saw. Everyone remembers the famous image of George Floyd with the officer and his knee on the side of the neck. So procedures like that or people, people trying to restrain individuals like that, those would be no longer allowed under this new police conduct what I be correct and well, they haven't been allowed in Rochester. Yeah, right, and while so in in Rochester, what had been explained to me a while ago was that there's a technique and if you look at some body camp footage you can see this. Okay, they put so if you're on the ground and your handcuff in your some how, I guess, stabilize the better whatever. The word is strained. They we well, we strange, stabilize whatever, but you're not. You're not going anywhere in that particular moment right in the vernacular. So the technique, from what I have been told, was they put a knee on your shoulder blade, Gotcha sort of like near your shoulder wai or between your shoulder blades, and then in time, what is supposed what what my understanding is, when we preface it with that, my understanding is, and I have seen this on other body camera footage, Mother Department stuff that I've just seen kind of just online, as well as other things Focali I've seen, is that, okay, so the knee is sort of in the in the shoulder blade, keeping you stable. So handcuffs whatever, check you for any sharp objects, any weapons or whatever, and then your you. What I've seen again on training films and other things from other departments is that at some point they sort of kind of get you somehow upright. Okay, okay, I got you. So they release that at some point and I believe that happened with Daniel prude. They released him and tried to sit them up and then something happened. I don't we call right off where they needed to. They felt they needed to get him back on the ground, because you do see part of that video he is seated and then something goes on and they feel the need to re establish that restraint on the ground. So they don't. They're not using it on the neck here, but there is this technique where they will go sort of on your back shoulder blade area just to make sure that they you know, they've got the situation and control before they try to then get you up, to see you up, roll you over whatever. Okay, all right, so, okay. So, as you said, the things for the neck were bad. Now does this because we're like we're going to talk about is specifically about prude? was there any mentions about the use of spit shields and the officer conduct or is that still something they are still being talked about? I would right now I would have to go back to the to the document to to look at that to see about spit hoods. I think there are. There are groups that do want them band but basically a spit sock is it's it's kind of meshy. I you know, after that I put one on to see what it was like. I'm not quite sure how it prevents any kind of droplets from getting through. I mean it's not. It's not fishnet, you know, it's not like I isn't good, but it's it's a very loose weave. I mean you can, if you put one on your head and put your hand in front of your face and blow through, you will, you will feel the breeze on your hand right and it's it is. There is elastic on it, but it is it's sort of a loose elastic, but that goes over your head and drapes down, not really even on your atoms, apple it comes if you put it over your head, it really comes down almost kind of rests on your on your collar wall. It's really how the how this fits. So I'm not sure could you do damage with it? If you put it on and twist. You can do damage with anything, but just putting that on. Like I said, I'm not sure how it prevents any droplets from getting through because it is not a tight weave. Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think if you're if you're hate to get graphic with graphic with spitting images, but I guess I will. If you're like if you're spraying like a mist of spit, you're right. I think I would get through. But if you're like the thicker spits that that people sometimes have, those might be stopped the perhaps, Yep, but someone's nauseous right there might contain that a little. Yeah, you're right. I think it's what are we talking about? Viscus, viscosity of things, right, I think. I think you're right. I don't. I think...

...people would like to see them band but not every every tool has its use. It has to be used properly. Yes, I agree with that too. I so here's my thought on that. I think someone who who's having mental, mental health issues, the Spit Hud it is stopped them from breathing per se. I think it's more psychological. I think it it just makes you feel enclosed or trapped with having something on your possible right. Right. So it's so if you if you're already having a mental episode, having one of those on your head could possibly escalate your mental episode. I don't think it's going to constrict your breathing. I think you make a very valid point with with the Mesh material of that spit side. I just think it's more if you if the whole thing is you don't want to be restricted or or contained, and now someone's kind of putting a hood over your head. In your mind, that just kind of might mess you up a litle bit more. Yeah, yeah, you could become far more, you know, it's excited by that and wonder what what is, what is happening dead there? You definitely definitely agree that. But then, okay, this was much twenty third New York had just gone on pause the day before because it covid. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but you know, he had said they had covid. We don't know. And again the officers and the officer didn't even have masks at that point. So still we were just beginning to learn about covid at that time. So exactly right now I got you nope, and I said that's we'll see how that how that works, and I'm I'm also really curious about how that is going to be. The training for this is going to be put out. Is it going to be like I just a quick you know, those kind of trains you get where you watch a video and then you sign your name at the end of it, or is it going to be real training? In regards to how this goes, I'm curious. I guess we'll left to wait and see. And regards to that new thing also that I saw on the news, I think the minor reporter covered a little bit also, is that new race commission. What's that all right? In regards to what's all about? Well, the race commission report. Race Commission was started last June after George Floyd. Okay, they were commissioned in June of two thousand and twenty to look at policies, programs, whatever is going on in Monroe County that is leading to structural and institutional racism. So they came out a last Thursday, I want to say the days are starting to run together, okay, with their two hundred and eighty four page report. So there. Well, they kind of is a quiz with this, okay, okay, so two hundred and eighty four pages. There will be a quiz people, but but here's here's how you and the quiz is. The quiz is what eat? What? What can you do about this? So how many times do we get reports and lots of people do lots of work and write a great report and it sits on a shelf and nobody does anything with it. MMM. So the CO chairs of this have vowed, the former mayor Bill Johnson, a Lean Santiago and Hammond Chaffik have avowed that that's not going to happen with this. They're not going to let this go. The chairs of the Working Groups, there are twenty one commissioners that oversaw nine working groups, are not going to let this go. Okay, so the former Mayor Johnson had a he he give a lot of perspectives in a news conference. He suggested reading it from the back first. I mean everybody wants to know. Okay, would you say what you say? What you say? So they put that stuff up front, but if you just read that, you don't really know where it a lot of it came from and it can be incredibly daunting to have a two hundred and eighty four pager. Absolutely so. As I said, there were nine working groups, Business Development, criminal justice, education, healthcare, housing, human social services, job creation, mental health, addiction services and policing. And I'm taking an open book test and I know so the summaries of each of those work groups is in the report. Is Part Three of the report. So start with with big right. If you have a funnel, but you're pulling a bunch of stuff in the funnel. So the summaries, the recommendations of the work groups went started to go into the funnel and so everything went into the funnel and what came out our recommendations, key themes that were there are five sort of topic areas that come out of this and so if you read the backstory you can understand where they got some of these recommendations from. There's also there were themes that crossed over, were there were issues if they saw in multiple of these groups. So they address those. I think there are...

...six of those themes that are connected. So addressing those issues will hopefully hit a couple of different different areas. Bottom line, is really not going to be a surprise to anybody listening to this program is that racism is in the DNA of Rochester. Yeah, I don't think that's a short thing, but it's not a hope. It's out of who we are. It's what we've been and whether it's been done by some people deliberate or just sort of that's the way things are. That's just the way things are here. And what are you going to do to change, to evolve? Right, to change your DNA? Can you change your DNA? Can you evolve? Can you be a new organism? And that's what this report offers, a way to get us to be a new organism. Right, Yep, I think you're on your accurate. I don't think it's a secret to the people who listened to this program sure, to other people that might be something that they are surprised to learn about, but I think people who are in the know in the city as well, well less people who are minority, already understand that that has been an issue you and that you know it's something that we have been working towards for certainly not there now, but hopefully we can. We can see a future where there's less of it. Bottom line, in my in my opinion, I don't think no matter what you do, there will never you will never eradicate racism. There will always be someone who is going to be racist, but you can still try to change the direction of where what we've been doing to be more inclusive. So I think that's it's a start and and and then that's what I think. You know and I agree. It's, I think, eradicating. It is, I guess, how I look at health prevention and I look at health and I look at the actions you can take to be healthy, as you want to. You want to delay the onset of illness and you want to minimize its effect. And it's not it's not the greatest analogy. But because I'm not going to say minimize racism. No, you don't want to do that, but you, but you want to. You you want to what we're saying here. Want people to understand that their behaviors in that arena have a consequence to themselves into other people. Right, I agree with that. And and you make and if someone wants to make a conscious decision that that's how they're going to act. I don't know what you and I going to do about that, but you you inter I think the key is to interrupt the thought process. Why am I doing this? And Ache an individual think about why am I doing this? Yeah, am I doing this deliberately because I don't like you, Matt, because you're black, or am I doing this because, my God, I didn't even realize I was doing it. Yeah, that's a great point. You know that. That's the difference. I don't like you, Matt. I'm gonna and I don't like you for a lot of reasons, one of which is black. So I'm going to continue to do this. But, oh my gosh, I never realized I was doing that. Yeah, why am I doing that while because I've always done it. Well, no, okay, am I able to break it? Change that, to to break that. And I think people, I think change is you know, lots of people don't want change and it's scary on both sides of it, because something's going to be different. What am I gonna people who are in a position where they feel they may lose something. What am I going to lose? Yep, and I don't know, maybe this is a weird thing to say. People who stand to benefit from change. Oh my gosh, my life may be different. Am I prepared for that? I don't know. I mean, let's look at we think of change is always beneficial to someone who may who we think, well, you're going to gain from this, is going well, you're always going to be great. Now what if they what if they have a little bit of trepidation about what that new life is going to be have. We acknowledge that right, right, you know, you never know. It's very, very, very good points. I think the fear of change is real. I think people are a lot of people may not even realize that there's some deep seated something. You know, I mean, like you said, perfect there's a there is a there's a handful of people out there that are just I hate you because you are black or you're a woman or whatever you are. That's just who they are and that's what they that's what they do and you know what, you're not going to change that person, unfortunately. But you're right. I think there is a lot of people who have no idea that some things that they've been saying or things that they've been doing or the way they even treat individuals was wrong. So they had they have no idea that that's the way that that it's that is not the right way to go about things. And also I think there is some sort of fear, you know, what if, if these other groups of people begins to get more, am I going to start getting less? Is that going to ruin my quality of life? And I...

...don't want that to happen. And a really good point is people who may start to benefit from these changes. Are there going to be more expectations of you now because you're beginning to be looked at in a different way? And is that scare you that now, you know what? Before there was no spotlight on you because there was the expectations of what you're supposed to do, or lower because people thought lower of you? Now, if you are seeing things yourself gain in this expectations of what you do may be higher, and are you going to be able to rise to that challenge? I think it's a great, great question, great and great points. Every you know, and this is just me, I do not have a consoling degree and I don't have a mental health degree, but has that stopped me before? Of course. This is what radio is all about. Our show. You want to have another opinion, have your own show. Right, that's right. But we we do things because there's a benefit to us. Right, we perceive there's a benefit to us. It may be somebody objective will look at why are you doing that action? It hurts you, not to mention hurting other people, but the action you're doing is unhealthy, unhealthful, self destructive. Right. Well, I'm getting something from that action and that behavior, and so if I change that action or behavior, I know what I'm going to get from it. What's the new action behavior going to get me? You're right, is it? That is fine, whatever need I have right, and that's, I think, the scariness of change. I know what I'm going to get you, okay. I know what I'm going to get from that person who says they hate me because I'm black, I'm Jewish, I'm a woman, whatever, I know I'm going to get from them. There's this consistency in that, and this is sort of perverse comfort, in knowing that, Matt, you hate me because I'm a Jewish female. Yep, and so this is how I'm betreated us. What I'm getting right, I know this. I know it going in all of a sudden. Now I'm uneasy because I don't know if, all of a sudden Matt is being nice to me because he's really realized fit just hating a Jewish female because of that isn't the greatest way to go. Or is this some kind of subterfuge here? Now he's being nice to me, but I gotta don't turn around. Yeah, he's it's the thick nice. Right, you're right. So, so there's a lot. There's going to be. I I think, my opinion, there's going to be some uneased as we adjust to coming to terms with how we view ourselves and how we view other people, and I think trust issues may surface. Hundred percent agree with all that and you're right. I think there's a comfort and when things have been the way they are, and especially if you know someone's been a certain way towards you, all of a sudden they're trying to not be is that real or is that forced? Are they trying to have an image of themselves change or they really actually a change person? And it's hard to hard to tell if you if it's been that way for a long period of time. All right, Patty, and it's time for us to get out. If here another great show and we covered covers many of the topics we could and I always appreciate what we do that. Hey, if you're turning into the show right now, you missed it. So what you can do, though, is go to inside the margins RADIOCOM. You can get the full versions of any episode of inside the margins, including this one. On inside the margins orcom and also you can find us on iheartcom and where we get your podcast. And also you also missed the headline news that Patty talked about on the beginning of the show, and if you miss that you want to get the full versions of those headlines, you can go to minority reporter dotnet. The full versions of those headlines are available there. You will also have the option to subscribe. You can get the hard copy or the digital version. As I always tell you, I am a subscriber to the minority reporter. I think it's a great way to get your information, especially your local community based information. So definitely take an advantage of that opportunity and also, as one of our listeners did today the other day, if you want to provide feedback to us, myself, Patti or the minority reporter, you certainly can. You can submit an email to editor at minority reporter Dotnet, at his editor at minority reporter Dotnet. They'll get back to you somethings they can. Or you can go to our website inside the margins readercom there is a contact section there. Just click on the contact us or you can always email me directly. It's Matt Wilson at inside the margins. Video Cap. All right, Patty, what do you say? Should we do this again next week? Please for for petty singer, I have Mett Wilson. This has been inside the margins. Will see you next to meek. Do you have a topic that you would like to discussed on inside the margins? We would love to hear from you. Please send your thoughts, comments or questions to inside margins at gmailcom.

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