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Inside the Margins
Inside the Margins

Episode 11 · 2 years ago

The Opioid Crisis in Marginalized America

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Work. Marginalized groups can be the target of negative beliefs, behaviors or judgments from others. On this show we seek out marginalized voices and perspectives and tackle some of the conflicts and issues these groups face. Now is the time to have your voice heard. This is inside the margins with your host, Matt Wilson. Hello and welcome to another edition of inside the margins. I'm your host, Matt Wilson. News just continues to happen all the time about the coronavirus and will certainly get into that. You know, I'm just happy that I was able to buy toilet paper today, because I know that's a running low now because of this virus. But Ha, ha ha. But before we talk about all that good stuff, let me go ahead and introduce the minority reporters. Beatty singer. Hello, Betty, Hi Matt. In this week's minority reporter, George Moses, the former chairman of the Rochester Housing Authority, is facing additional allegations. These are that he misused funds from nonprofits for personal gain, such as buying tickets to a New York Knicks game, purchasing firearms, going on a cruise and getting a netflix subscription. A federal grand jury returned a twenty seven count third superseding indictment charging Moses. That was announced by the US attorney, James P Kennedy Junior, on March fiv in addition, codefendant Janie white is charged in four counts with conspiracy to commit wire fraud, wire fraud and obstruction of justice. Those are just allegations. Credit denials limit wealth building for black consumers and businesses. Whether it's seeking the pride of home ownership or a business seeking to begin or expand, securing credit remains an age old, auduous and offering frustrating pursuit for black Americans, despite a slew of federal and state laws and acted to overcome long standing racial disparities a light. In February, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau settled a federal lawsuit brought by small business owners and advocates who challenged the the board's lack of enforcement of anti discrimination laws that protect minority owned and women own businesses from unequal access to financial products and to services. Black voters bring a landslide for Joe Biden. On Super Tuesday, African Americans across the south went to the polls on Super Tuesday and gave the former vice president frontrunner status and what is now a two person race between him and Senator Bernie Sanders, and independent from Vermont. Prominent Voices in the black community are encouraging African Americans to go to the polls and record numbers as contest continue across the nation, as Biden and sanders make their cases and the primary in New York will be coming up. Biden currently has six hundred and sixty four delegates. Sanders has five hundred and seventy three and to get the Democratic nomination at candidate must have one thousand nine hundred and seventy nine delegates. So there is a ways to go for both candidates. Sunny chancellor came to Brockport to listen to students. Christina Johnson spoke to several student groups throughout the day that she was here in on March fifth. One of the questions that she received was when are you coming back and will you let us know? The question underscored one of the reasons she came to the campus. In the weeks since chief diversity officer sifas Archie was fired, students and staff have criticized President Heidi McPherson for, among other things, in effective communication. During a news conference, Johnson did not address questions about McPherson's future. A team approach to opioid epidemic resulted in nine convictions in overdose deaths last year.

The opioid deaths and overdoses show little sign of abating. In February, law enforcement reported sixteen fatalities among sixty nine overdoses. There were four deaths over the last weekend in February. For January and February, African Americans made up fifteen percent of people who died. Latinos made up ten percent of people who died so far this year, according to unofficial data. Columnist Michael Vaughan is saying that there is no need for legislation that would allow a childish youngest fourteen, to authorize immunizations without a parent's consent. There's also, according to Michael Vaughan, no need for a build that would allow a healthcare professional to treat a child under the age of eighteen for sexually transmitted diseases without a parent's consent. And also he opposes proposal that would have a state mandated sex education curriculum whereverend Vaughan says that parents should maintain their rights to introduce sex education at an appropriate time relative to the FAMILI's religious beliefs. Thank you so much, Patty. So I know we were talking offline a little bit ago in regards to the OPIOID crisis, and I'm my wife actually works for a clinic who helps, who help people recover from drug and alcohol addictions, on a lot of which he does, if she administers Nothingdon to people who are trying to get off the opiates. And I think a lot of people believe that this is primarily a problem in the white community, but it turns out that there is a growing issue within the African American communities. That correct. Yeah, yes, I'm there, and the Latino community. So so this is not a just a white problem, it's a black and brown problem. Several years ago I went to a conference of health writers and at the time it was a believe it was the public health director for Detroit and someone in the group had asked him why this is two thousand and sixteen, why are we hearing about this now? And we did. Didn't really hear a lot about crack problems and and he is a person of color, and he responded very frankly because it's, you know, young white men are dying. was was his response. And and the room was full of health reporters and we sort of knew this wasn't telling us anything, that we really did row and it almost, you know, in a sense, almost it that we didn't we weren't fostering but it is affecting everybody. And and in fact, when the sheriff, Todd Baxter, held a news conference a week or so ago, who that they release this data, and the Commissioner of the Monroe Cun Department of Public Health, Michael Mendoza, talks about that. The the crisis is not going away. It's not going to go away anytime real soon, and it is affecting people from all walks of life. So on a so official data comes from the medical examiner right right, which we know can take months to compile because that to do full investigations on everything to find the cause of death. So in place of that we have unofficial data from law enforcement, from the Monroe County Heroine Task Force, which is all law enforcement agencies in the county get together and and pull their data and it's released once a month. So for the year for two thousand and nineteen, the unofficial data six hundred and sixteen overdoses. We again he's not necessarily deaths by for White. Hispanic had a hundred thirty two and nine to one overdoses among blacks. But if you if...

...you look at just the numbers in the first two months, so African Americans making up fifteen percent of people who died. This is this was overdose deaths have died in the first two months, and Latino's ten percent. So we're mixing. We got we we've got golden delicious and Macintosh apples as we have total overdoses, shure and and we have deaths. But this is not a white problem. This is in everybody problem and it's a particularly in everybody problem when people often are buying their drugs in neighborhoods where black and Brown people are living. This may sound awful, meat I have always maintained I think you should always buy local, no matter what it is. Shop local, and that includes your drugs. Stay out of my city neighborhood. Right. If you're a drug user in a suburb, I'm sure there are places you can go find your drugs there. But that's that also becomes more of the problem too for city neighborhoods that that are trying to to right themselves, to get to get all from under that. And you know, we look at the North Culitton Avenue neighborhood with La Marquetta coming in, that are trying to do so much good work there, and yet the trade still is is very apparent on that stretch of road right. Well, I you know, I always thought that anyways, because of the the simple fact that I know in the beginning a lot of people who were becoming addicted to opiates was because they had some sort of injury and they were prescribed and opiate to, you know, relieve the pain from that injury and all of a sudden it becomes addictive. So and people who get injured, obviously there's no color barrier there. Anyone can get injured and anyone can can get prescribed this drug. So if you are a person who has an addictive personality or addictive traits, you have a danger of becoming addicted to this drug, even if it's given to you in prescription doses by actual medical professionals. And that would end my opinion. Cross all colors, all races. I'll just all, I'll just you know, genders. It doesn't, as we've seen with the the local company URDC being being sued because of its its alleged role in the OPIOID emendemic and changes in prescribing habits. Now they're right. There are charges, their lawsuits in Monroe County is among the municipalities that have sued opioid manufacturers because of what what they told, what the manufacturers allegedly told doctors is that, oh, you have to keep people ahead of the pain. You you have to prescribe sortmut and I I had a surgery in two thousand and seven and this was really before what's happened, but I was told by my surgeons, well, you need to take these two every four hours and you have to stay ahead of the pain. Oh, okay, I've never really had a major surgery before, so I ye know, I want to be a compliant patient. I don't want to be in pain, I want to recover and get back to my life. Right. So I went through. So I dutifully. I had a because you can't remember when you're on Opiois, because that's part of what they do. I had a notebook that I wrote down when I took them in home and whatever. So about two or three weeks in I start having what I called Dungeons and dragons dreams, just unbelievable grips, like video games. True, sure scary little bit. So I went to my doctor and I said, I'm having these dungeons and dragons dreams. What's going on? Stop taking them, you obviously don't need them. Switch to tie on all or add whatever. If you'd have another you know, come back and we'll talk about it. So I'm glad I don't like video games. What may have happened? Could I have become addicted to that? So fast forward a few years. There are people who used opiates because they have chronic pain and other things don't help them. So we move to try to limit the prescription...

...drugs that are that are the numbers of prescriptions, the pills prescription. Yet there are people who this is what they need really to to go through their day, to normalize their life, to be able to go to work. Their supply, for lack of a better word, is cut down. Now physicians don't want to prescribe. So what happens to these individuals who who truly need this medication. To some people it may be like insol into a person who has diabetes for everybody, but for some people who have a chronic condition that may be the situation for them. So in trying to stop an epidemic and of this indiscriminate use, you create a problem for other individuals. Meanwhile, there are people who are addicted and how can they get help for their for their addiction? Let's do this. WE'RE gonna go ahead and take a quick break. We'll get back into this ord after the break. It's Patty Singer and Matt Wilson and this is inside the margins. Do you have a topic that you would like to discuss on inside the margins? We would love to hear from you. Please send your thoughts, comments or questions to inside margins at gmailcom. Welcome back to you inside the margins. I'm your host, Thatt will we're talking to petty singer about the OPIOID crisis. That's going to be a slippery slope too, though, is to find the fine line from actually trying to prescribe the correct people the medicine that they need, versus trying to stop people from who really don't have a need or if even they do need it, they have an addiction problem. So if they say, if you give them a bottle of it and you tell them the dosage that they're supposed to take, they're going to abuse it because because they they they're an addict, they like the you for your or the feelings they get when they kick the drug. So they may overstep what is told or how they're supposed to take it. And then also brings in a question, and I don't know if you have any paint on this, what about medical marijuana? What's what? What? What role of that play in all this? So let's let's let's write that downti marijuana. I'm going to write that down in a note here and in the parking lot for a second. So and let's get to the to the other. So, if it may be a bad analogy to say that for some people and opiate to control their pain is like insulin to a diabetic, I'm not a doctor, I don't know that, and this could be a really bad analogy in somebody listening could be going, what are you possibly talking about? We're not medical fush right. But but if if a person requires this medication and they get it on a regular basis and it's and it's administered in a way like insulin is administered to someone with diabetes. Does that make them an addict? I mean, the previous century heroin was was use people. They were functioning people in hero and I. And actually what's interesting in doing some research for some articles on this, I have talked to people who are in their fifty s and s who grew up around what they called functional heroin addicts. They had a steady supply. If you look at what some other other countries do and maybe what some other states are trying to do, if you, if you can keep us supply for these individuals, can they function in society? Can they have a job? Can they, you know, maintain their families? Can they pay taxes? You know, can they be functional? Is it the seeking behavior is what causes the problem? And again, we're not medical people, we're not social work. I'm just bindulating. I'm just bringing this up. If, if, if I am spending all my time seeking, I can't do anything else until I solve that craving, until I should get that fix or whatever. All I do is seek out and whatever it is I seek out. I'm...

...a alcoholic. I go to away with by other chocolate I want. It is there for me. I can have my steady chocolate, and I don't mean to minimize, but again, I'm trying to an example. No, just fine, and I can function. Right. You look at people who have alcohol problems. The alcohol is that. I'm not saying alcoholism is good, but the point is their supply is not interrupted and while they do perhaps practice seeking behavior, it's not it's not criminal in they're not risking their life. I'm not for drinking and driving. No, again, it's decide that. That's what we're talking about, seeking behavior. Right, right, right, you don't that that? That's a good point. That the I guess one of the things I still would think about is I've had a chance to visit the clinic that my that my wife works at, and a lot of times these people are not just a Ta get to one thing. There's a multitude of things that they have issues with. Something, for example, if they try to kick one thing, they start you, they start substituting something else to take place of the thing that they're trying to get rid of or trying to stop using. And now that becomes a problem. So someone may have had an ORC opiate issue, so they stopped. Now they're an alcoholic and now they have an alcohol issues. I think my question on this as you're right. We're right. There are some people who need some to get by and and may not even have maybe a small diction, but some people have major like there. Why she want to go to a place where they can't even function? How do how do we make sure those people are the ones that we are not enabling with this drug, but still giving the drug to the people that actually do needed or people who probably war abuse it. They could take the required amounts and continue on with their lifestyle. Well, Ma, you know maintenance drugs. That's sort of what the method one is, or so box zone is. These kind of drugs that can get can help people get started on that on that path. I think the question you really have to back up and ask is the sixty four thousand dollar question. What is the addiction? All Right, so so addiction. I've talked to people who work with with individuals who have addiction issues, trying to overcome addiction issues. Is addiction fills a need. There's something missing in the person's life and so they turn to something that they either self medicate to avoid the pain of that voide what's missing, or there is just something missing that they are trying to fill by this substance activity. So the focus is on opioids. What about gambling? What about sex addiction? What about Exercise Addiction? What about anything that can become an obsessive unhealthy behavior for somebody? So you know, the Adam Bellow and county executive is going to be unveiling his opioid action plan and I am hoping that it is much broader addiction action plan, because if you and I, neither one of us, say we're not addicted to opiate, then why do we care about this? We should because it's our neighbors, it's our tax dollars. You know, tied backster last year, the sheriff came out with a figure that this cost the county millions of dollars. So so yes, this is costing all of us. We all need to care where society we have to we have to care about our neighbors. But if I'm not addicted to Ope, to opiates, but there's something else missing in my life, where is the addiction? Where is the where is the opportunity to bring mental health into the discussion, to address why we seek in the first place and again, and I mental health provider, I don't...

...know that, but from what I've read from people are spoken to, this is a seeking behavior and and how do we have to address the mental health component so that we seek things that are that are healthier or we understand more about addiction and more about seeking and more about filling, filling a need, and how can we do that in a healthier way? I think this is where you and I are definitely an agreement, because I think you have to nail on the head. I think a lot of people who are addicted to something there's something going on, something deeper than just wanting. I drug. Most people don't want to draw because I just want to drunk. They're usually a something deeper that we did. We cannot see and your rights. That usually requires some sort of counseling or someone who with the expertise to actually take them through and guide them through what the actual issue is and focus on how to to alleviate the need to met it self, medicate because you you're trying to feel a void or trying to block a memory. or pain or just trying to not experience with what is bothering you. And again, I also am not a mental health expert at all, but I think the underlying issue for any addiction probably has to been do a mental health issues. And then, and then people talk about, well, don't call me crazy, mental health and you know I'd like to talk about can we change it to to mental wellness instead of mental illness, mental wellness. I know, you know sometimes by giving something a different name, of you you trying to sanitize or you trying to be politically correct, but I think we have to start serious conversations in our community about our mental welfare, just like we've had them for a while now about our physical welfare. So how is our and I had to I heard somebody say this the other day, rather than mental, because you think gets a term. Well, your mental right, that's it has a majority of connotation to talk about what is our emotional wellbeing? But then would a man want to talk about his emotions? I mean, that's so people say, no matter what word we use, we're going to we're going to have a hard time with us. But but you know, emotional, because mental can also mean mean cognitive sorts of things, but what is our emotional well being and how do we get those conversations started? And I heard somebody else that was very interesting, that addiction is a form of violence against oneself. I thought about that. Well, this this person had been talking about addiction in a drinking habit and and said that this was we're talking about. The context was a conversation about abuse and violence, and the person's comment was that addiction is violence against oneself that then spreads out. Would because your addictive behavior could lead to violence toward other other people, whether it's in a seeking behavior or just whatever, but violence against oneself, and I don't know that addictions ever been framed that way. So you know, why do you want to hurt yourself? Why do you want to be violent towards yourself? So this so let's really back to the question of Presskin. So this brings back to the question of the Medical Mirrorjuana. So if the addiction is a mental thing, let's say that. I'm not second. I'm thank you because I'm staying right, because I say, what little influence we have right, let's try to change our words in our conversation to try to remove the kind of the charge words into something that can be a little more neutral. Sure don't. I'm with that. So let's say you have some emotional some kind of issue emotionally. So maybe the opiate, the opiate itself, is not...

...the problem. Maybe it's the actual emotional issue that you have. So do you think switching from opiates to medical marijuana would make any difference whatsoever? Or I understand that physically your by reacts to these kind of drugs differently as well. I understand that, but that you still may have that underlying issue. So is that going to still affect even if you switch out drugs with that still, you know, maybe still become an issue for somebody? Do you think so? I thin let's talk about in a couple ways. So it's talk about medicinal marijuana use as opposed to recreational use. And there are practitioners in town, and the Palliative Care Unit's particularly at least last time I hit I had talked to somebody about this. At you are medicine and Palliative care. We're having conversations with their patients about the use of medicinal marijuana. People, even people who hadn't used in opiate. We're coming in and going you're gonna give me opiate, freaking out by that. Only God, I'm going to be addicted and thirty, saying no, no, what, and talk about, okay, are there medicinal marijuana, forms of medicinal marijuana that can be used for controling the pain? The thing is to that what they talked about is marijuana doesn't. Doesn't. Marijuana isn't going to cause you instant death. Right. It is not going to drop your respiration so low that you die, which is it's not going to depress you in that sense. That what opiates do not a scientist. Does it bind to the same receptors in the brain that pleasure receptors? I don't know. I mean there are opiate receptors, so marijuana is not going to bind to the opiate receptor. But does it bind to other things in the brain? That gives you some sense and thhc you for it. Whatever it does, but it's not. It's not going to stop you from breathing, which is which is the day. You are not going to od on medical marijuana. Now, medical marijuana, you are recommended by a provider, you go to Fearelo or you go to Columbia care in Rochester and you bring in what you have and you talk to somebody there and and they tell you what it is that they can offer and and it's not the word doesn't prescribe. You're recommended by your physician, you go to the Fart, you go to one of the dispensaries and the people they are talk you through what is appropriate for you to have. So now we talk about recreational a Juana, which, in my opinion, would go to that self medicating behavior, which goes to your point of so I'm not using opiate, I'm using I'm using weed. I haven't really addressed any issues. I'm just I just switched from Mesopius right. So I'm still self medicating. I still haven't addressed or tried to address anything emotional that it's causing this. I haven't looked into looked into that. Why am I doing this? And I just I just medicate with something else. And the thing about with recreational marijuana, I don't know about you as less, especially now that the weather's nicer, people roll down their windows. Was the last time you were to stop light and got us really kind of knows full of what the person in the next car was doing. I don't want that, at least with with medicinal your license to do this, you're under the guise of medical professionals. Of any problem with that recreational I'm not sure that that's a big public safety improvement right and I'm with you there, especially people are driving, because driving a Paris are impair of what, regardless of at your drunk or you're under the influence of marijuana. I guess the last question I will ask in regards to the whole marijuana versus the opiate thing, do you think medical marijuana has been tainted a little bit or less looked upon? It's almost frowned upon a little bit just because of the fact that for such a long time, when you think of marijuana, you think of recreational, recreational use, whereas...

...with opiates, initially people think of you the first thought is medicinal purposes, and then and then turning that into some sort of abuse. So it seemed like it took they both took different routes, if you understand what I'm saying. One was this was a drug for people that that were partying and using it for methical purposes. And now you're trying to make it ethical and that kind of turnishes it a little bit. Do you agree with that? Um, yeah, I mean I think of, you know, refor madness, and I saw that movie, which was, you know, propaganda. Isn't is an amazing thing. I mean. So there's a whole generation that has its sense of from reformdness. It's me. We're laughing about it. So, like if your Netflix or someplace, you go on Youtube and see some and see some clips of reeformand is. I think anything that comes from a physician has more of a sense of legitimacy. My doctors only stay ahead of the paint take two of these every four hours. I was going to argue until until until I'm waking up with, you know, griffins and all these other things flying through my room. Wait a minute, this isn't I don't like this, this, this isn't right. But I did what the physician said because the physicians were apparently allegedly told by the drug reps, this is what you need to do and we'll get we can do a whole show on the pharmaceutical industry and what maybe in a future and you right, you know, and and and what that's all about. One of the things, though, then we can talk about another time. Just kind of a thought to leave you with. One of the things I don't like in any way, shape or form is if the state goes to legalizing recreational marijuana, I do not understand why they want to put a lot of these shops in thinking that, oh, we'll put them in communities of color because they have been disproportionately affected by marijuana arrests. Why bring another potential problem to a neighborhood where you can already get a forty ounce? I don't that does not make any sense to me, and I live in those neighborhoods where you can. There's a bunch of places to get a forty ounce within, you know, several blocks of me. I don't understand why. I think that equalizes things. Well, we'll let folks of color have like the first shot at the licenses for these shops. How is that a good thing for anybody? I agree with that and I you know what, we're going to talk about that probably in the future, because I have a whole bunch of thoughts on that as well, because I you're absolutely right. You there were, we were already complaining about their being liquors to one every corner or a spot where people can easily get get drinks and underage drinking, and and Africa American community spending a lot of cigarettes and drinks and stuff like that. So bringing medical marijuana shops or medical marijuana places for recreation right there, you're just adding you're adding to that problem. You're not. You're not making it any better. I think that is more repressive because you, I think you're you in a sense, making it easier, Yep, to do that, and I think that is more oppressive than then folks saying, Oh, you know, these communities, African, American or Latino communities, are disproportionally affected by law enforcements. I think just moving in a lot of these kinds of shops, he's head shops and things like that, I think it has more damage to a community. We will discuss US further at that air promise you. Thank you so much, patty, for talking with us today and also, I just want to make sure we mentioned this. If you want to talk about any of the headline topics or you want to read about any of the headline topics that you heard Patty talk about earlier the show. You can go to the minority reporter dotnet. All those full stories are there. You also have an option to subscribe...

...to the paper if you if you are so inclined, if the stories do interest you and if you have ideas or if you just want to reach out to to people who work with the paper, you can send an emails to editor at minority reporter DOTNET. And we also have links to the minority reporter on our website. At inside the margins Radiocom you can see a nice picture of Patti there. You Click on that, you'll go. You'll go write to the minority reporter. Will take you right there. And one thing I do want to add is that local journalism. It cost money to produce local journalism in any form, print, online and which is and lots of local people producing local journalism are asking their communities for their for their support. If this is something you value, to support that absolutely and, as I said many times, one of the reasons why I even reached out the Patty as I actually subscribe myself to the minory reporter and I really enjoyed the paper and I've and I really wanted to work with anyone who had anything to do with that paper, as well as the history of that pat has with journalism anyway. So, as always, thank you so much, Patty. It is my pleasure. Matt. Thank you so much. All right, coming up we will get some thoughts on the pandemic known as the coronavirus. So much talk about that, but we'll get to that soon. This is Matt Wilson and this is inside the margins. Will be right back. Do you have a topic that you would like to discussed on inside the margins? We would love to hear from you. Please send your thoughts, comments or questions to inside margins at gmailcom. Welcome back to inside the margins. I'm your host, Matt Wilson. So I did not want to talk too much about the covid nineteen because obviously you had been inundated with that pretty much every hour on the hour and on social media and everywhere. So we want to cover another topic that was kind of important as well. But obviously we can't not discuss the coronavirus, and a lot happened this past weekend. Obviously we are all aware that pretty much all the schools are now closed. Pretty much any event that you were going to go to has probably been postponed at least. The good news is that there is a little support that Adam Bell did it out, so they're trying to help do with the students that are being kept out of the schools. They're going to provide meals for children and libraries are going to remain open during regular hours and today until eight PM and also through Friday. Fooling it's going going to provide meals to the city's school aged children and they're going to be serve and grab and go meals throughout the day during the school closures prompted by the response to Covid nineteen. So the news on this continues to break by the hour, by the minute sometimes, and there's probably new stuff going to come out later on today and tomorrow and as the week weeks go on. I'm definitely not going to downplay what's going on. It's obviously serious. What everything is closed. Just want to leave you with some final thoughts here. It's important to remember that, if you are person who's...

...healthy, that there are people out there who are not. So just because you think that you may be able to recover from it, you may be in fact infecting someone who cannot recover from it, and that's why they're doing this. It's not because they're trying to protect the people who can overcome it, they're trying to protect people who cannot overcome it. So, yes, it does kind of stuck that you got to stay home and you can't do all the things that you normally do. You can't go out to the your favorite restaurants, you can't go out to your favorite watering hole and, yeah, you're probably gonna have to maybe avoid the gym for a little bit, which, unfortunately for me, I was trying to get back in shape. So I kind of guys in the coolest of the world. But it is for the benefit of everyone, not just you, for everyone, and I want to stay positive. It's hard to stay positive in times like this because you're going to be inundated with a bunch of information that's going to probably make you maybe even depressed. But we'll get through this. We will get through this. I saw reported earlier that in China the numbers are we getting to go down and they're going and they're beginning to release or relinquish some of the restrictions that they had over there. So that is a sign that it is possible for things to get better, because that's where, apparently, is where the origins of the coronavirus is from. So if the place where it originated is beginning to see numbers dwindle, that eventually that's going to happen here too, and the state of emergency's going to help that as well. Now we're going to have all the funds that we need to combat this. So, yes, are these kind of weird times, strange times, maybe even a little dark? Yes, absolutely, Willie, without a doubt. That's true. But you got to remember even when the nighttime is at its darkest, eventually the sun will shine. So hang in there, treat your neighbor Nice, love your family members, obviously wash your hands and don't be the person who's at the store filling your cart with twenty five different milks. Remember your neighbors got to live. To take what you need. Of course, don't Overdo it. Other people also are trying to get through this just like you are. You don't need twenty five gallons of milk. All right. Thank you so much for joining us for inside the margins. We will be back next week. We'll get through this together. This is Matt Wilson and for Patty Singer, this is inside the margins. Will see you next time. Do you have a topic that you would like to discuss on inside the margins? We would love to hear from you. Please send your thoughts, comments or questions to inside margins at gmailcom.

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