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Inside the Margins
Inside the Margins

Episode 26 · 2 years ago

Police Diversity and Protester Responsibility

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We discuss ways to diversify the police and also talk about the responsabilities and accountability of protest organizers. 

Marginalized groups can be the target of negative beliefs, behaviors or judgments from others. On this show we seek out marginalized voices and perspectives and tackle some of the conflicts and issues these groups face. Now is the time to have your voice heard. This is inside the margins with your host, Matt Wilson. Hello, welcome to another edition of inside the margins. I'm your host, Matt Wilson. Another very busy weekend in the news. A lot of people, fortunately larger celebrities, passed away. I know some people aren't familiar with fleetwood MAC but I guess they're. One of their original founders passed away. We just film and passed away. Obviously John Lewis will talk about more of that as well and we off. Obviously we're going to get into what happened on four hundred and ninety and and protest and other things, but before we jump into all that fun exhilarating information, let me go ahead and bring in the minority reporters, patty singer. Hello, Patty, good afternoon. So I'm mad. Then look up the did definition of fun. My some people intent with different definition of I would go with exhilarating. I would go with exhausted. Exhausted as the air funds probably you're right. At S will. Some people consider it fun, but I'm sure that is my that an adjective choice. Way and the headlines for minority reporter we have the city is moving to get the Bulls head project back on track. Revitalization of the Bulls head neighborhood, which is languished for much of the past decade, is gaining some momentum. The city on July seventeen announced it is seeking a master developer to help attract private investment to the neighborhood at the intersection of West Main Street, West Avenue and Genesee Street, and the submissions the request for qualifications are due by four PM September twenty eight, and you can go to the city's website to find out more about that. The mayor's emergency order prohibits groups gathering overnight in an effort to quell violence. Seeing over the previous six weeks not just a mere lovely warrant, issued an emergency order that prohibits large, unsanctioned gatherings. The order to effect July fifteen. It has been renewed twice and has come in response to increase in shooting incidences and shooting victims and individuals killed by gun violence. The death of two civil rights icons in the same day July seventeen, see key Vivian, who's remembered as an icon who put his life on the line because he loved his people, and John Lewis, called the conscience of the Congress. Both icons died on July seventeen and both have been remembered for their tireless and everlasting work, as we've as we've seen recently in the civil rights movement, the Police Accountability Board enters another court battle. City Council had appealed in May the ruling of State Supreme Court Justice John Arc but the board could not discipline Rochester police officers. Council's attorney filed the paperwork shortly after noon on July seventeen and the wokers club will file its response to that and is not expected to get into court until September or October and a decision is expected in by the first quarter of two thousand and twenty one. The Frederick Douglass statue is restored at a historical Rochester site, but once vandalized statue of the abolitionist was reinstalled on July sixteen at Kelsey's landing in the Maplewood Rose Garden. Supporters gathered at the historical site, which was once an underground railroad departure point to Canada. The Douglass statue had been vandalized the weekend of July fourth. John Bodiger and Charles milks, who had been arrested for vandalizing a Douglas Statue in December of two thousand and eighteen, helped city crews put the statue back in its place. In editorials, mark morial rights that our children's lives are too precious to risk reopening schools without a safety plan. The rites that one of the many questions the deadly coronavirus pandemic has forced the nation to confront is the question of whether to reopen schools. Experts agree that the shutdown is widening the racial achievement gap. However, he writes that we desperately need to send children back to school, we need to red and we really need to reopen our economy, but we cannot do either until we bring the virus...

...under control. And in this week's Biz Quiz can Mitchell answers the question from a person who runs a cleaning service and was contacted by another company that wanted to partner together on a bid for the contract, and can Mitchell answers how can the person make sure that she is not doing all the work while the other party takes the month? Matt, thank you as always, Patty, and don't forget, if you want to see the full versions of these stories and read them in their entirety, make sure you visit the minority reporter Dotnet. That way you can get the full version of these stories and also you will have the opportunity, once you're there, to go ahead and subscribe to the minority reporter, and I definitely suggest you do that. We always want to support local journalism and I, in my personal opinion, believe that minority reporters one of the best local newspapers around, so certainly want to go ahead and subscribe and take advantage of that. You have a choice of getting the digital or the hard copy print version. You have the option of choosing which one you prefer, so go ahead and do that and, as always, the minority reporter likes to hear from you and wants to have your comments and questions and your suggestions for stories. Go ahead and submit those those inquiries to editor at minority reporter DOTNET. And, as always, you can listen to this and any other past episode of inside the margins on our website at inside the margins Radiocom or wherever you get your podcast, including the IHEART radio website and APP, and as well, you can subscribe or visit the minority reporter by using the links on our radio stations our radio website as well. All right, we're going to go ahead and take a quick break and when we come back we will get into our topics with patty singer. This is inside the margins. Will be right back. Do you have a topic that you would like to discussed on inside the margins? We would love to hear from you. Please send your thoughts, comments or questions to inside margins at gmailcom. Welcome back to inside the margins. It's Matt Wilson and I am here with patty singer from the minority reporter. All right, before we jump into our topic, just real quick I want to mention, obviously I'd mentioned earlier before we jumped into the headline news, that on Sunday John Lewis had his funeral sort of. I guess not funeral, but they were they were kind of laying him to rest that day and they were crossing, they were carrying his body acrossed the bridge there. That kind of referenced his crossing back on March seventeen one thousand nine hundred and sixty five from Selma to Montgomery and they took it. They carry his body across the Admin pettist bridge and he definitely was an iconic person when it comes to the civil rights movement of the s. He marched, of course, with Dr King, so he's definitely someone who's well respected, with him the Democratic and Republican parties. So just want to say rest in peace, Mr Lewis. And reason why I mentioned that because a lot of people can compare protests of and things that were happening today as to what happened back then. I know times are different and things are different, but protests are protest and that leads us into kind of today's topic. And as you are aware of Patty, back in those days the people who were protesting were treated really badly by the cops of that time. That and obviously, as you know, Patty in that time period, the the law enforcement was a little different than segregation was rampant, racism was rampant. So it was a it was a different time frame and the police were extremely violent when they encountered the protesters. A lot of them got beaten and taken to jail and and that was that time frame and I know people have some of those similar fears today. I know it's it is different and we want to talk about the people who organize these protests and what they're trying to accomplish and the responsibility of keeping not only the protesters safe but the environment in which they protest safe, and that that's in regards to the civilians and also law enforcement. What's your thoughts on that, Patty? I want you hold that thought for seconds. Absolutely to police in protest conduct fifty years ago, sixty, almost sixty years ago. What I have I was a kid. I was too young to know what was going on. Was a child and it wasn't. I just wasn't sure what was happening. What I have heard recently from people who claim they have studied that era, and I have not checked their pedigree on that to know, but there has been some talk about how...

...difficult it is to diversify a police force in New York state for a variety of reasons, one of which a Civil Service Law. I'm going to say right up front I have not studied the civil service laws. I don't know it, I cannot cite it for you, but what I've heard from some law enforcement people with Civil Service Law makes it very difficult to diversify a force because it's testing, is all. There are objective criteria, right. I heard that some people, even in law enforcement, in order to get a more diverse force, would like to do away with Civil Service Law. It is the opinion of people, some people that I have spoken to on both sides, that if you do that you then go back to what law enforcement may have been fifty years ago, where you didn't have objective criteria to get people on a force. You had you had your body, Hey, your nephew, you had and that's it. People weren't we're going to be good law enforcement people, but where were the objectives? I've heard stories, even even locally in some towns, where you all you look like you can be good on the police force. Do you want to be on the police force? Okay, what do I need to do right and having too much subjective not enough objective criteria. In many cases it will work out in the person will be a fine law of force, ormser and representative their community. But in some cases it's not going to. And if you don't have objective criteria, in my opinion, and you open yourself up to what we hear about law enforcement fifty, sixty years ago, yeah, it's not professional force. Right, professionals. There are bad CPA's, there are bad lawyers or a bad journalists or bad radio people. There are bad police officers. Am I a bad real person? Are you saying that novel? There are doctors, there are gaps, there is bad teachers, there are a bad students. Right, you are not going to have perfection. But if you don't have objective standards to which people can meet, and I can hear the objections. Well, the tests are rigg. They're not, you know they don't. We need how I want to say this, the Bible lawsy test taker. I would do very poorly on civil service test. I took one once and I didn't do that great on it. I'm a bad test taker. Right. So people for whom they don't may not have the knowledge of the test. They may be a bad, bad test taker. Maybe there needs to be some kind of widened parameters in those instances, but there needs to be some objective criteria to start this process right. What somebody's brotherinlaw on the police force? No, you don't want the police force be a quote unquote good old boy. You know law enforcement and you see where you can just have friends, family or people that are that are close to the people that are on the force. And you know, I know we talked about this a little bit and are a couple of our previous shows in regards to that. The whole thought process of affirmative action where you're kind of forced to to have minority representation or female represent you know, representation on the force or whatever job environment, that work that you're that you want to discuss. Is that something that would work in law enforcement? And I know we I know we kind of talked about the benefits and the also disadvantages of doing that where, you know, it's the saying I got hired because I was black or I did not get hired because I was black, and they both come with their own challenges. As that something that might work in this kind of environment. I think the opportunities have to be there for all people who want to take it. So so what does that mean? Does that mean putting explorer posts for all different types of civil law enforcement, all kinds of things? You know the Monroe County lab work that's considered law enforcement ring you're not on the street, a sort of resting but that's the law enforcement. I think, however, we can create opportunities for young people to learn about everything that is out there. Now, don't get me started on common core. I think. I think we're doing young people just service in education by teaching to tests and by saying college is the answer. Yeah, yeah, so. So if we can have more, and maybe this is why families like charter schools or...

...because maybe they go with more experiential learning and more sampling of of experiences for kids to have, don't also get me started. Will have we can have a whole show on why I think we need national service, because I think it would expose young people to two different kinds of career paths. And then, if you have this general exposure across your population, do you necessarily need affirmative action? The way we think of affirmative action of checking a box, picking one from column A and one from column B, because we have so many opportunities for young people of all experiences, at all economic levels and all races and always they identify themselves to sample what's out there in the world right now. And I've always been a person who says when you have someone who is trying to protect the neighborhood, that is from the neighborhood, that makes you more willing to listen and go with what they're saying, versus someone who you've never seen, me for WHO's now trying to enforce the area and again, you just like you. I don't I don't have any insight as to testing or the requirements as far as law enforcement. I've never taken any of those kind of type of tests. But I know that if you live in an inner city environment and you see a person that that you knew from the neighborhood, that grew up in the inner city, that all of a sudden is a person who's representing law enforcement in that area, you may you know he knows how that he or she knows how things are in that particular neighborhood. They've crew they grow they've grown up with it. They're grown up, they've grown with that. The environment is their surroundings. So people are more apt to listen and respect that person versus some, some person who just took a test and has all the you know, the school knowledge, but, but, but doesn't really know the INS and outs of that environment that they're that they're kind of enforcing law, and that makes sense. So I used to be, and I still am a proponent that if the money in my city is good enough for you to to take home, if you might say, you know, if my money's good enough for you, my city's good enough for you to live, to live here. Right. So, so police fire should live in the community that they serve. Maybe not the neighborhood they're assigned, but they should live in the community, as you're saying. I have spoken to enough police officers, Rochester police in particular, who say it is incredibly difficult for them to live in the city because when their neighbors find out their police, they bring every single problem to them. No, I that part's difficult. So I would like to see. I would like to see your first three to five years. You need to live in the city to get what you're saying then, you know, go with elsewhere. But I can understand where anybody wants to when they come home, they want to come off duty and if your neighbors are coming to you with to solve every problem, if you're not getting any rest. One thing I would like people to do, and I just looked us up, is there is a practice test for the Rochester. Rochester Police Department is hiring. Deadline is August fourteen. So grab your paper and Pencil and write down this website and I would encourage people to go to it. I would encourage them to click on take a practice test and I would encourage them to do that. It will give you an idea of what police officers need to know, the decisionmaking they have to do and what they have to confront. So that is city of Rochester Dot Goov, join rpd. So you'll kind'll come up join the Rochester Police Department's roll down to about two thirds of the way down it'll say learn more about joining the RPD and it says take a practice test and there's also the physical fitness standards you need, but take them. I would urge people to take the practice test. Absolutely, okay, nos, Yep, yeah, this is this is a subject that I want to revisit in the future, just about, you know, policing in the standards and knowing the environment that you're going to be in, or even being from the environment that you want to represent. And that's the something I was I guess I was kind of saying, as I don't necessarily had take issue like if you lived in the city and then you decided to move out to the suburb or something, that's that's fine with me. I don't that doesn't bother me. But I think what I'm saying is, if you have someone who actually came up in that neighborhood, I can you know, I went to thirty nine school. I went to, you know, this high you know the the high school, whatever, whichever one you know. I know the area I grew up.

I know the people in there, I know the stores and other store owners. I grew up a I grew up here. So I'm a good representative of this community because I know the community, I'm from the community. I'm not necessarily coming from the outside and then being brought into live in the city. I'm saying just being from that, from just being from the area that that you want to represent a great and that's what and that's what rpd is trying to do. Yeah, initiative, which probably will we will lose if people want to shift money away from the police department, because those are some of the initiatives that get funded right right at that. You know, do that outreach, be involved in the neighborhoods one thing, and then we'll talk about response. We've protested. Yeah, yeah, well, when I took that test, what I had is there is some facial recognition there. They will ask you, they'll say suspect is whatever, the person, and then a couple of them that I looked at were males. So one shaved his head and then war put a wig on and you have to identify who is the person that they're looking for. Okay, Challenge folks to do that, because I got it wrong every single day. But that's what we're here with. Christopher paid right. It looked like the guy we were looking for. I mean we hear that with with the ind and so we when we say, Oh, you're defending the police. No, I'm saying they have to make a decision in a brief period of time. What went on after you? Do you feel you have the wrong person. That's a whole nother discussion. But identifying somebody when you're when you're described as black jeans, Blue Hoodie, right, yeah, let me on the street meet that description. Right, Nope, Yep, I that that part. I definitely understand. I understand how it's, as if, hard to tell people, especially if you're chasing them or you know, it's really hard to tell the exact look of that person. I think one of the things, again, I do want to revisit this, is the actual apprehension of the person. That sometimes, as I think, is the more questionable thing. Is How people, you know on Facebook, you see it all the time and you don't go to facebook all these kind of things because it's always nonsense, my opinion. But just just for example, you'll see like those show like a an example of some sort of extreme criminal who was non Africanamerican, maybe, like a white person, who did something like shoot up a school and and they show how they were apprehended versus a person who, like, you know, stole about a box of cigarettes and how they were like, you know, jumped on and beat instead. You know that that's I think that's more of the question. Is Okay, I get it, you got it. People have to be apprehended, but shouldn't everyone be it? Shouldn't it be a protocol as to how you apper? Obviously, if someone's resisting is one thing, but if the person's kind of giving themselves up, how aggressive you need to be to take that person in? Well, then then that becomes a discussion of how many times do you see on facebook or anywhere else any person who is apprehended without a fuss? Yeah, right, Nope, that does not make good facebook. Well, and that's I got. Well, we will. I definitely, I promise listeners we will revisit this topic again in the future. But I did want to get into what Perry and I were discussion this discussing earlier last week before today, on Monday. We were talking about protests because obviously protests have been in the news all over, not just in this city but across the country. Some are very peaceful, some of something a turn and been very bad and ended up with with violence. And I think, I think oftentimes protesters, you know, they and people organized protests have valid value, valid reasons and and and they want to do things in a non violent way. But obviously every once in a while somebody does something that's probably not appropriate and they kind of go away from that. They lead it, they go astray from what the plan is and they kind of going away where they incite things and I don't know, Patty, you and I we were discussing the responsibility of people who organized protests, about the the safety of the people who are protesting and the and the safety of the surrounding environment as in as far as other people and buildings and law enforcement and everything like that. And I know the thing that we were kind of going back and forth about is how what kind of fault are, what kind of responsibility there's a person who organizes the actual protest should take? Should they be subscription? Should people go after them and something kills are right, and I know we were going back and forth on this conversations on that. Well, you know the the one that started on May thirty. Everyone said that that was that...

...was peaceful until there were a few actos. They called who who took it off the rails on that. So in a sense sense like that, from what I had heard, because I was not at the initial part of that protest, that the people who were the organizers were trying to corral the people who they thought were going to take it in a different direction, and it didn't work. Weren't able to do that. So when we say, well, should should those people have been responsible? Do you make them responsible for, you know, burning, mooting, whatever happened? No, it's it's a tough call because everyone has to be responsible for their own actions. But in a in a protest, let's go to the nine you protests there are. There's a lot of inherent danger in that. You're going to you want to go on a highway. That's dangerous. You want to just go on the streets, that's that's dangerous. There's a sense that protesters should not tell the police what they want to do because that, you know, ruins the moment, takes away the surprise. Isn't isn't a natural protest. There was a protest, it was organized in Greece in which the organizer worked with the police and I had heard that the organizer got a little criticism for that. What are you working with the police for? While because you wanted it to have to be safe. There was a report from the instance in Hilton. It had happened the week earlier, that law enforcement had not been notified, so they could not block the streets. Say what you want about the intent of the person who there was an incident between a pedestrian and vehicle. We're not here to talk about the intent on on either person. But had, to my understanding, law enforcement been notified, streets could have been blocked off. So last Friday night, when the Save the Save Rochester people initially had a protest, called it off and then a small group of about a dozen or so people did have a protest. A boy hour and a half later, police tried to block off some streets for them. They didn't get them all because I don't know that they knew the route and there were some instances in which cars were behind in coming toward the protesters. Is Police may have not have gotten to that intersection sooner. The group may have taken a turn that they didn't expect for whatever reason. In and at one point the protesters surrounded a car and I did not hear what one of the protesters spoke to the driver. There was a conversation that happened and after about two minutes the protesters will do away. But to me that's how bad things happen. Because the driver gets scared. The driver things okay, the protesters are on this side of the street. I can pass five miles an hour on that side of the street and a protester veers because they maybe didn't see the car right. So in a situation like that, for organizing the protest, I think organizers should do everything they can to control what they can to keep participants safe. If someone goes rogue in that protest, like we saw on May thirty, the organizers have done everything that they could. Someone just went rogue. Right, right. But I do think it's, I don't know, bad analogy. You invite people to your home have a party. Somebody may do something really stupid. Can you control that? But you, but you want to create a safe environment for your guests. You want this to be safe because you want your message heard. We don't want your message to be overtaken by something that may have been prevented, a tragedy that may have been prevented. Right, don't make sense? Know it does, it does, and I think so. Here's so here's my stance on that, because I I'm probably ninety percent on board with what you're saying. Is You're right. I do think that you want to make sure that you have things as safe as possible for everybody. You don't. You don't want to lead a group and people into a burning fire. You don't want to leave, you don't want to you don't want to cause chaos and have everyone else around the protest get hurt or be involved with things. And to your stance took to what you said about the process. Happened on March. Thirty three made thirty. I'm sorry, where the people went rogue? Yeah, you. There's no way,...

...if you or if you were trying to organize a protest, that you would know that these guys are going to come and act that way. I happened to be working one of my jobs in the area where that protest happened and I actually saw the beginning. I saw the majority of the early stages of that protest. I actually actual film a little bit of it and it was fine. There's nothing, there is nothing bad happening, nothing the entire time I saw it. It was a it was a guy. It was multi racial, racial. Those women, men, everyone was involved. Everyone was very peaceful. They went to him the Mlk Park, they had they talked, you know, and then they went. They went to the public safety building and when I was leaving, the majority of people were getting to disperse also, and then there was like the round to version where everyone went back to this public safety building area and then those rogue people decide to go back as well, and then they kind of that in assault when all the casts happen. And I don't know if the people who organize the original protests cut than anything else what they did. But what when you protest? The one big thing about protest, and that we discussed this too, is you do want people to know about it. Right. So if you're just protesting in front of like the churches should go to that no one's ever heard of, or you're protesting on your front lawn, no one's going to know that you're protesting because no one really is at your house. Or, you know, the thirty people that go to that church may see that protest, but the people. You're not trying to alert people that are already on board. You're trying to allow people that have no idea what the cause is or, you know, you're making people forced to recognize what you're talking about. That's the whole purpose of a protest. But you're right, there are ways to do that safely. I do I do under so I guess what I'm saying is I understand wanting to do protests in areas that are very public so everyone recognizes or sees it. So I definitely get that. But if you are going to do that, you do have to do try to try to do that as deeply as possible. You don't want to intentionally put people in harm's way. Does that? Does that make sense? Because you know, as you were talking, as you jotting down a couple thoughts here. So I have never organized a protest. I haven't either a protest. Not a big joiner, not likely to go to one just because I'm not a big joiner and as a reporter, if I'm seeing it one that I'm not working at, then you know, someone could argue with you being neutral, right. Yeah, Yep, and stay away. But having covered a few, I'm thinking, what is your message and how do you control your message? So I had a conversation with one of the ministers in town since a while ago and he was talking about how they would organize protests back in the s before facebook. So now some of the problems is you put your protest on facebook and anybody who yes, that's a huge that's a huge problem. Better. Yeah, he lose control. So what this? What this gentleman was telling me, was that back in the day, when they would organize their protests, they would go to the people that they wanted to be in their protests and say this is how we're going to have our protest. They would train people in how they wanted the protest to go. So they would practices on this. But again, because let's go back to how we started this, you have a not you, you have a non professional police force who may react to you. Right, so you need to you need to be above reproach and make them react and not have you react. It's kind of switched now we see protesters reacting to police and police not reacting. The roles have changed in fifty years, right. Used to be the police were the ones yelling, and now it's the protesters yelling at police. So it's kind of interesting for that. But he would this. He would also say that they would arrange sort of their own security, their own sort of marshals for the protest, and they saw someone who looked like they weren't, they wanted to take this a different way, the marshals would take over and separate that person from the group right so that they stayed on their message right right now, and that's kind of interesting. So it was very choreographed. Is that happening now? Is some of the put some of them? It may very well be. Again, I don't know. I'm not involved with the organizing of them, but you can just look at some of the protests say, well, these, you know, they're doing a lot of homework here, and other others you may say they didn't do as much homework as another one may...

...have done. I that now that a hundred percent group Gro with you on there are there are differences in protests. You are absolutely right. There are ones that they they take weeks or months to put together and they finally put together because if they want to get everything right, and then then there are the ones that are just straight up based on a motion. Like you know, we're mad with those protest tomorrow, which, obviously, if you're doing that, you have a limited time to to try to get everything organized. If you're pro if today you dec you can to protest tomorrow, you know you're not really doing a lot of properness. You know ways to prepare yourself. I do want to ask this question and we're running low on time, but this question I want to ask. So this is a weird question because back it's so I'm going to take it once again, Paddy. Back to the s where I'm going to Brag here. I wasn't around yet, but you know I love Oh. But anyways, we'll go out to the s and those protests that were done by Lewis and Dr King and, for the most part, were the people organize it, were organizing very peaceful protest. At the same time, even though they were organizing peaceful protests, they were well aware that the people that were protesting with them were probably going to end up getting hurt because they knew the way the attitudes of I'm not talking about the police, obviously not please today. I'm talking about back then. They knew the attitudes and the way that the police were probably going to react to them back then. So they knew that there was a good a chance that a lot of them were going to not only just be arrested but probably brutalize in the process. And if you obviously see the films of what happened. Like them. They were attack dogs, water cannons, you know, they beatings. That all took place on people for just walking and protesting and saying, you know, trying to get the mess out, message out, but about boating or anything else. So my question to you is this. Then, if you're organizing a peaceful protest but you know the end result maybe the people protesting with you getting hurt, do you still bear responsibility for that? So people going into a if you're organizing a peaceful protest? So let's back up. What what is protest? We are just going to go on the highway and we're going to walk across the choose me Anthony Frederick Douglas Bridge, which I've heard that likened to the Edmond Pettus Bridge. The scenario there was was the same. We're going to walk peacefully across that and we are not going to shout at police. So again, I haven't seen all the footage from the nine see up that ended up on the nightly news and the stuff that we see in the archives is of peace people walking and the law enforcement reacting, which that outsize law enforcement reaction cause Lyndon Johnson to sign some seminal legislation right right. That response. It was people in their Sunday clothes walking across a bridge and the response from law enforcement. That said, this is not tolerable. In in the protest that I have seen, both you know, facebook clips all other things, I see protesters taunting. I am not for the federal government going into Portland and arresting people without cause. I'm not for that. That is that is putting a torch to the constitution. But when we talk about responsibility and safety and trying to keep as many people safe as possible, that goes to having what your message is going to be, keeping people on point with your message. And again, I've never organized a protests. It just me being theoretical about this. What's your message? Training people to keep on point with your message and trying to instill in the protesters do not react, do not do not bring you don't want to be the ones engaging. HMM, you want to be making your point is. Does your point have to be profanity? I don't know right. If I will protest, I would try to minimize that. That doesn't play well on the six o'clock news, right, but that's in an old lady saying your profanity. If you want to get on the six o'clock news, probably not the place for it all. Number. Number. I didn't answer your question,...

...but but if you if you are taking a page from the s and you are planning these meticulously, you are being responsible. And then the actions that happen outside of that, when you are just walking across a bridge or walking across the street, you're controlling everything you can possibly control. And there is some inherent risk of being part of a protest. I get that. But if you are leading a protest and you haven't told anybody that you're doing this protest and you want to be in the middle of an intersection, that's dangerous for everybody, okay, and that I agree with. You know what, I think? I think we're kind of an agreement with this too. I do think I'm not one for antagonizing people either. I will, I will take that stance. I don't think it serves your purpose if you're going to go on someone's face and curse them out while you're trying to protest. I don't think that shows I think if you I think we've made this joke before, but I think to me, as I've a joke. I think it is. I think is true if two people are in the argument and one person seen down being calm and talking reasonably and the other person sitting and screaming and spitting and spewing and saying awful things, one person looks bad. You know, it doesn't matter if you have a valid point, you just you just don't look good when you're doing it the one way. You know you you you look more in control of the situation. When you act more control of the situation. So that's my thought process. But I again, I don't think that people should push buttons like that, but I don't have a problem with people protesting in public areas where they think it's going to get attention. So that's kind of where I am. I am at all that. Definitely agree. Right protest has to be look at. I look at the back at every time I walk into a voting booth. Why don't have a voting booth anymore, much to my Chagrin, but every time I go to vote, if people hadn't, if women hadn't taken to the streets and said we demand the right to vote, I'm not voted right. Right, absolutely, that's absolutely true. Yep, that again. I wasn't there. What I've seen that people, people counter protesting, looked more foolish than look foolish in the women protesting did not. It's like important if I'll see the pictures of the MOMS with the linked arms. Who? Who? MOMS are linking me arms? Who looks like they're overreacting to MOMS whose arms are linked trying to make a point? Right, it's right now. I said, I think you're I think you're right, and I did. And I think one thing that you and I both can say is that you being a woman and me being a African American male, as a lot of protesting had to be done in order for us to be able to do some of the things that we both do. So we certainly I don't ever want to tell anyone to matt protest. I will never ever tell people not to protest. It has to be done. Yeah, one thing, and I know we're close in time, but one thing that I do think about is the long term social media implications of these protests. So a lot of young people on the streets and a lot of young people angry, and good they're justified in their anger. They put a lot of these. They do a lot of selfies, they put a lot on their own social media feeds and things like that. What is going to happen when an employer, potential employer, does it? You Search? Yeah, these some of these people facetoface with law enforcement. Spewing invective is the jargony way to say that. Yeah, I'm an old lady. All Right, Emma, I'm just saying no social media that patients. Yeah, posting this to your social media when you seeking point? Maybe nothing. I could be worried about nothing. I'm just wondering. I'm just putting it out there. Somebody tell me I'm wrong, and now I you know what? I can't say you are because I know a lot of companies. Do you know go through social media is to look at the habits and the actions and the lifestyles of the people that they made potentially be high be hiring? All right, I want to continue this, of course, but man, we need more than one hour, pat as swear we need more than one we a little crown my thoughts here. It's like herding cats. Well, Patty, it's as always. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. I'm always happy that you join us on this show and don't forget, folks, please make sure you go to the minority reporter dotnet to check out all the stories that we've talked about earlier in the show and the headline news and you can see those in their entirety. And please, please, please, subscribe to the minority reporter. It's definitely worth it. It's always...

...that. It's always definitely worth supporting local journalism, especially ones that are targeted towards us, the people who don't get a voice as much as we like to. Patty, thank you so much. I always appreciate it. Thank you, Matt, my pleasure. All right, let's go ahead and take a quick break. When we come back, I'll have some final thoughts. This is inside the margin. Do you have a topic that you would like to us on inside the margins? We would love to hear from you. Please send your thoughts, comments or questions to inside margins at gmailcom. Welcome back to inside the margins. Okay, I got some final thoughts for you. So, seeing this argument a lot, I've seen people defending the phrase white lives matter. In fact, a very wellknown radio personality had a tweet saying why why did someone get in trouble for painting white lies matter on? I forgot what property or street or whatever, and as question was certainly both be illegal. Well, I'm a rather simple answer for that. I cannot remember a time period when white males had to fight against oppression or racism or unequality or equity because of the color of their skin. Don't remember that time period in my life. Ever, I remember the manifest destiny were Americans thought it was cool at to dominate and take over any land, a soft it because it was the word of God or God was advised him to do so. I remember slavery. I remember native Americans being enslaved. I remember all that. But I also remember women fighting for their rights, for equality of all colors. Even white women had to fight for equality. But white males, I don't recall a time frame when someone was was very when they were going through a time period when they had to fight for equity and equality in my lifetime or in any history books. So that's the reason why that phrase white lives matter is kind of weird. Not Saying that white people don't matter at all, I'm saying that what I find it difficult for people understand. Is why there is a black lives matter movement. Now, you may not agree with the protest, you may not agree with the kneeling and all that, and hey, to each his own whatever, but saying black lives matter is not a racist statement or is an it's not a slight against other colors or nationalities. Saying black lives matter it's just like when we said Boston strong, right, when terrorist acts happened in Boston and Bostonians lost their lives. We all rallied around Boston and said Boston strong, right. It's the same thing here. I think it's we're at a time frame we're finally the majority of people, and I will say this because I think that is the majority of people real life, realize that there's an issue and there is an issue within the black community, and it's not just police brutality, it's equity and civil rights in general, something that we're still fighting for, that we've been fighting for since we were brought here on ships. And I even hear talk of mayor's and and and governors trying to block the teachings of American history of when, when we were brought over as slaves, which which is ridiculous. That's part of American history. I haven't heard the senator say that slavery was necessary evil to build our great country. No, slavery was not necessary evil. Slavery's never a necessary evil. Slavery was a choice by people because they thought that it would if you enslave people, made them work against her will, you can get the job done faster because you know you don't eat. You don't have anyone questioning whether they want to work or that they didn't have a choice. Right. Anyways, I'm sorry, I kind of your off my point. My point is when people say black lives matter, they're not saying white lives don't matter, they're not saying Asian lives don't matter, they're not saying native American lives don't matter. They're saying can we rally around black people because right now there's an issue with in the black community and that the...

...issue ever is resolved, then we can go back to saying always matter black the black say it this way. If you had a street and you had a street full of neighbors that you were all cool with, and you saw one of those houses on fire, you would rally around that house on fire. To put that fire out, and that's what we are now. We are all human beings. So that's the street as humanity, the House as African Americans. Right now that house is on fire. So help us put that fire out and then we can maybe at that point, say lives matter, but you can't really focus on everybody. Every one is still burning. Thanks for listening to inside the margins. We can be back next week on Monday. We'll see you next time. Do you have a topic that you would like to discussed on inside the margins? We would love to hear from you. Please send your thoughts, comments or questions to inside margins at gmailcom. I.

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