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Inside the Margins
Inside the Margins

Episode · 1 year ago

Pepper Spray Controversy

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We discuss another pepper spray incident with the police has captivated Rochester. 

Inside the margins is sponsored by salvators. I just took a DNA test. Turns out I'm a hundred percent Rochester. That's right, I got seven Hundredzero matches. We are all COOGIE's. I can't wait to shake your hand. Oh wait, I can't, but I can feed you. salvators famous full and you touchless delivery thecom marginalized groups can be the target of negative beliefs, behaviors or judgments from others. On this show we seek out marginalized voices and perspectives and tackle some of the conflicts and issues these groups face. Now is the time to have your voice heard. This is inside the margins with your host Matt Wilson. And Hello and welcome to another edition of inside the margins. I am your host, Matt Wilson, as we continue on in this month of marks. been cold the last few days, but spring is around the horizon, so looking forward to that. So we got a lot to talk about again today. Primarily, what we're going to focus on talking about today as the police were in the news again another pepper spring incident. This time a child was not pepper sprayed. It was actually the adult, but the adult actually was sprayed in front of the child and there is a little bit of controversy surrounding that. So Patty gave me homework. told me to watch the entire one hour and forty eight minutes of that video, and I did and so did Patty, and that's why she's good, because in order to understand things you got to watch the thing in it, the things in entirety. So we will discuss that later on, but first let's go ahead and get into our headline news with the minority reporters, patty singer. Hello and good afternoon to you, Patty. You know I don't teach anymore, I still have to assign homework. You're about the only student I ever had that wanted to do it. Yeah, I followed instruction, so I think you did. You my home didn't come in with it late or excuses and anything else. Thank you very much. You're very welcome. Okay, so some stories that we have been working on. A group from Detroit came to Rochester and gave the homeless convertible coats and add is imploring Bill Clark to run for school board. County legislators say that families should not be forced to cremate their loved ones. The covid nineteen vagstine site opened at the former Kodak Hawkeye location. I local pastor follows the examples of former presidents in deciding to receive the covid nineteen vaccine and the landmark society has made black history months walk, the walk into a video. Home Ownership is the highlight of Mayor Lovetie Warren. Second episode in her stay of the city addresses the cover story this week is an MCC alumnus creates an endowed scholarship to honor and influential professor. Monroe County Health Commissioner, Dr Michael Mendoza, has set the record straight on school reopenings. A law makes price estimates for some hospital services easier for patients to find. Seven city residents have become recruits at the State Fire Academy and in editorial, an open letter to Mike Mazzio as the locust club considered a name change and in something to think about, the Reverend Michael Vaughan right celebrating black history. Matt. Thank you so much, Patti, and as always, you can get the full versions of the headlines that you just heard on the minority reporter dotnet. So just go to minority reporter Dot and met those full stories will be available there. Also, you will have the option to subscribe to the minority reporter. There's an option to get the hard copy or the digital version. You can take advantage of either. I subscribe to it. That's how I get the news from the community into my mailbox. So certainly suggest that you do the same. So go ahead and take the option if you can. Also, if you have any questions, comments or suggestions for the minority reporter, they can certainly take that under consideration. All you need to do is some an email to them, to editor at minority reporter Dotnet, that is editor at minority reporter Dotnet, and they'll look at what you send them. And if you've missed any episodes of inside the margins, you can go to our website inside the margins, Radiocom and you get any episode that was passed that. Listen to their also, you can go to iheartcom or wherever you get your podcast. All right, Patty and I will discuss the incident, the pepper spring incident with the woman and her child after this quick break. This is inside the margin. Welcome back to inside the margin.

This be Matt and I'm here with Patty. All right, Patty, so let's go ahead and dive right into this. So the police obviously have been in the news a lot recently, especially in the Rochester area, and not too long ago there was an incident where a little girl, I believe she was nine or ten, I cannot remember is the exact age, but she was pepper sprayed and and she's subdued, I guess you say. And so that got a lot of a lot of breath, a lot of press and people were looking at that and kind of criticizing how that was done. So a new incident has come to light now. This time it's not involving the little girl, even though she was there. This is as involving a woman who was accused of shoplifting and she was the person who was pepper spray but the people who are having issues with this are having an issue because she was sprayed in front of her daughter, who I believe was three years old. So this is the new pepper spring. It's in it that's been brought to light and there's a lot of footage, patty, that that goes with this. It's not just a five or ten minute video clip. It's about an hour and forty, forty eight minutes long, I believe it is, and there's a lot to take in what's taken with that video. Right. So when they put together the body camera footage, they take the footage of everyone who is on seen and it's some people who have who are involved in the incident and it's some people who aren't who are tangental to it. But it just there. Sure, so you get the footage from every angle. They can be confusing to watch because it doesn't doesn't come with you. It's not subtitled in a sense of this is, this is the officer who does this. You don't really get a narrative with it. You just have to watch the body camera footage. I would strongly suggest people who are concerned about this incident that instead of scrolling facebook and getting other speed, of spending an hour and forty eight minutes scrolling facebook and getting other people's take on this, spend that time looking at it yourself and coming up with your own thoughts on it, because you know an issue, an issue that I took. So how did this come to? Like Loretta Scott, City Council president, gave the video to the Police Accountability Board last Thursday evening, I believe, Friday morning, the Police Accountability Board holds a news conference, online news conference with this video and there's a statement and they describe some scenes from the video because at that point it had not been released, even though this incident happened February twenty two. Apparently, from what I've been told, the mayor had seen it had instructed URPD to release it. URPD has to redact it, that to remove the child's face from the video and also, I believe, according to I'm not sure it's according to the contract or memo of understanding it whatever, but all officers who appear in the video have to be notified twenty four hours before before it is released. I don't know what the situation was if everybody had been known, if I ramy, even if someone just comes late, very late and they're standing there but they're in the video. According to the regulations they have to be notified. So I'm not sure what took two and a half, a week and a half to get it released. Anyway. So the Police Accountability Board releases a statement with their news conference and they describe some scenes. One of the scenes that they describe is of an officer telling another officer to use a car to block the public view because this doesn't look good. Then I'm restraining a three year old. When you look at the video and you see that in context, you see several minutes. So you see a couple minutes of the officer and we don't know who the officer is because, again, a body camera footage there are some identifiers, but you don't know if it's that person's footage or another person looking Adam. So it can be hard to know whose footage you looking at. Anyway, what you see from a couple angles is an officer saying to this child, hi, gear, what's your name? My name is connor. It sounded like that. What what's your name? Your Mom's okay, look at me, look at me. What's your name? Han? You know, look at me. Everything's fine. But meanwhile a three year old, she's squirmy right, she's squirming around. She this is upsetting to her. That's no one's going to argue with that. She's you can see she is. She is clutching onto his index finger as he's talking to her. So and then he says can you, can you block, you know, get the car because it just just doesn't look good. It looks like I'm restraining at three year old. But you don't what wasn't heard, or what the Police Accountability Board didn't say, was in the process of trying to settle down this child,...

...the officer asked for a car to block the view. Right, right. So if you just pick that out, yeah, he's restraining a three year old. Does want anybody to see? Oh, he's trying to create a little bubble around this child to settle things down own. You also don't hear in the Police Accountability Board statement that I don't know if it was the same officer or a different officer, who puts the child in in the car next to her mom for period of time because the mom, the mom is settled in the car. We'll talk later about the conversation he has with the officers. He's taking her to, you know, down to get her eyes cleaned out and booking. Anyway, presents two books to the child and says which do you want to read? You want to read a book, UNWRAPS A book and starts reading to this child and it appears to be a culturally appropriate book from what I could see of some some illustrations sure on it. WHO's talking about that? So so we're going to talk at the beginning. That the initial officer on the scene created a difficult situation for his colleagues. All right, and I understand why people are saying, you know, the police are militarized. I can understand that from the initial the initial interaction. I would urge people to look at the rest of this. Look at the interaction with the bystander who was filming. Couple heated words between an officer, I can't tell who, the officers again, it's hard to tell. But then another officer comes in and and explain the situation. The bystander says, I know you have a job to do, yes, but that was inhumane. Right. So there's an awful lot going on here after these initial five or ten minutes that show to me that our PD, that the officers on the street, are hearing the message that the community may not trust them. They have to do some work about that. They have to treat people the way they want their family to be treated, and they are were. I sought snippets of that and the rest of the video that showed that. I under some of that. Okay. Somebody had a problem. There was a news conference on Friday afternoon with rpd and one and one of the reporters asked the question about ask the chief how she felt about the second officer on seen the way he separated the child from the mother. So this is the second officer on scene. You can see the first officer is tussling with the with the mother. The child is there. The mother appears to reach out and grab the child. You want a you want the child safe. You want to separate that child from the scene. It appears that the officer reaches in and tries to loosen the mom's grip on on the child. He then takes the child away and it appears to be sorted to the side of the car, leads her, leads her by the hand and takes her away again where they he can't read to her right now because we're we're in the middle of a scene. Right. He's separating the child from the scene, from the safety, you know, trying to make that child safe right and other people can come in and sort things out as things as situation calms down. This is the same officer we see. I believe it's the same officer taking a woman. She's pepper sprayed. Initially she doesn't want her eyes washed out. She changes the mind. Yes, today time, I eyes washed out. He takes her downtown. They're up on Clifford and Portland. Takes her downtown and again body cameras running. So you hear the entire conversation in a very conversational tone of voice. He says, you know, I took an oath. We have to investigate these things. We you know, we have to do we have to do it, we have to do basically, takes her to the iwash station. Take your time, take however on you want. So this is clean water. Yep, take your time, do whatever you need to do, you know, and and explain to how to do this. So they're throughout the drive down. There's a conversation going on. The first ten minutes of this is your adjective here. I mean the first the first ten minutes sets up, I said, a bad day for a lot of other people. But I implore are listeners to watch beyond that and see the other interactions. There is not an excuse probably for what the first officer did. Gets out of the CAR. He's just like what just steal. Well, I mean the call comes over the radio, shopping, you hear, you hear the call. You here. Then I'm on long call. The call comes over the radio. You know, accused of, you know, incident in a store, and he comes out of the car and automatically assumes the worst. Yep, I agree with that too, absolutely. And it...

...goes and it goes and it goes downhill from there. In that interaction she runs. For whatever reason he takes her down. Obviously the child is going to be is going to be upset. But but we do. But what people don't see is the effort being made to then calm that child on the child's terms. Right, we heard a couple weeks ago you're acting like a child. Well, I am a child, all right. So I'm sure every officer in RPD has seen that and read that. So now you have a three year old who is being treated like a three year old. Would you like me? Would you like to read a book? which book do you want to read? I'll read you the book and he opens it up and sit there and and he's reading the book to her. That is person is treated like a child. There are good officers at rpd their officers who need more training at RPD. There are officers at rpd who, as will hear, you know her from reverence toward numerous times say they probably shouldn't be there and he had a news conference, you know, earlier in the day. There are there are all three of those and it shows to me later on in that video that many of the officers are urpd are learning organisms and they can learn and they want to be good and they want to serve the community and there are people who need need training. Now another and I'm this has been a monolog and then I'll let you get in, but does issue with body camera footage. And the President of the Locust Club said on Friday that body camera footage is use only to punish and to discipline. It's not used as a coaching tool. At the news conference Friday afternoon, Executive Deputy Chief Andre Anderson talked about what I've always talked about. NFL teams use film. Right. Tom Brady, best quarterback in the galaxy, has a quarterbacks coach right to help him get better. Every team's played on he's had a quarterbacks coach. Why isn't the body camera footage for rpd uses a teaching tool. Why? Why isn't film reviewed on a regular basis? This is what went well, this is what went poorly. Can they can? And again I'm just asking these questions. I don't know. Does the command stepp have to do that? Is that a role for the Union to do? You know, because they get the footage to or they they have access to the footage to use to use that as a teaching tool for their members? I don't know the answer to that. But you have all this footage, use it as a teaching tool. Don't just use it to flog people. Because if you coach this initial officer, it sounds he sounds young. Don't know. Don't you see his face? A whole lot sounds young. Don't know how long he's been on the job. But if this person is coached properly, person could turn into a very fine officer. If not, if this is just a punishing incident, what message you you sending to everybody else on your force that we're only going to punish you, we are not going to really work to help you get better, because who of us have not made a mistake on our jobs? It has been a big mistake and somebody worked with US and helped us get better. No, I've never made a mistake and on what you're talking about. No, I'm play it. Of course. Obviously we all make mistakes. So here's here's my take. I'm pretty much what you said. I agree with you down the line. A lot of the problem with these kind of videos is the fact that there is usually a lot more to what initially is seen or perceived by the public. Right. Usually there's a lot there's a lot more in depth details to what happened, and that's the case here. I think a lot of people who may have skimmed this or just heard about it. Some people haven't even seen this video at all. But people who have skimmed it maybe have only seen the portion where the lady is subdued, right, and that's the only part that you see. You see the interaction of this guy coming out pretty much automatically accusing that she stole something and sets up her a negative reaction from her, which is probably what happened there. Again, I don't know why she ran, but it starts off on a negative foot. It doesn't start off on hey, you know, we need to talk about what happened the store. Let's just figure out what's going on. Truth be told, I one of the jobs I one of my earlier jobs patty and work, is I was a corporate security officer for wigmants, big grocers to here and Rochester. I used to work corporate, so I used to do all the warehouses and all that stuff, and if there was a shoplifting report, we were asked to call the police. A lot of times we had to hang around too, and the police that were involved in those were very much more conversational. When they approached. They were saying, Hey, you know, someone said that you did this. We're not sure what happened. Let's just take it, let's sit down and kind of figure out what happened, and then there's a talk between everybody and they figure out what happens and if it's found that they...

...did take the something something, then they're taking down, you know, to and process or whatnot. That was not the approach here with that first officer. And like and you and you have you, you said that and that's the truth. That first officer came out of the car, quote unquote, guns blazing. I don't have time to be you know, for all this. I know you stole someone did you steal? Let's just take a look at you know that. He kind of goes right into that SPIEL. But, as you've also talked about, going forward past that officer, past the that incident, a lot of what happened after that wasn't really that bad, right. Obviously, when you're trying to apprehend someone who is a possible criminal, I'm and I'm not saying she was, and she actually was taken home at then again, we'll talk about all that stuff later. You don't want the child involved it when you're trying to apprehend somebody. So you have to get that child away from that person because you don't want that child to be injured and any type of altercation that you may be having with the adult. So I understand why that was happening. No one wants to see, no one wants their child to see them be arrested or pepper sprayed or anything, and I understand that that that too, I get it. I do. Who you're not human if you don't get that right. You're you don't want your three year old child to see you being hurt or treated in a way and any type of negative manner. So I get the follow on that, but it's it is very important to watch these this entire thing, because I agree with you wholeheartedly, Patty, that I think a lot of the officers involved in this have learned, after what it's been happening here, that a lighter and a gentle l more gentle and the more conversational and I'm more trying to understand everyone's point of view approach is needed versus the I need to, I need to, need the arrest you and take it down and by any means necessary. And you can see that. And they talk to everybody. They talked to the bystanders, even the guy who was filming the stuff, like you, but you mentioned. They talked to him and they talked to him in a nice way, like hey, you watch the whole thing. You saw what happened here, right and you look, you said the guy responded. I understand you got a new job. The back and forth with everyone that they talked to after that was really, I think, pretty good. So, going back to what you said, that first officer probably does need some training. He the he's and needs to be talked to about how to approach a situation. You can't come out like that with the you know, kick open the door, yelling at somebody and accusatory like that. That's not how things get done. That you gotta kind of talk, you got to figure out, because you don't know she did anything. You have no idea this. It's he said, she said. You got to figure things out first. You can't just go on guns blazing. So so. So it's also it's also an alleged shoplifting right, so on the in the scheme of things. Yes, you mean you look at the store. Doesn't want to lose prayer. Right. So it's inventory. This allay, Ye, should shop, but this is going to be an appearance ticket. Now police are saying that. You talk to police and they'll go yeah, everything, everything, capital murders and appearance. That's a different thing. That's a different that's a different topic and they're, you know, working on trying to do something with that. But I that Shit may have may have saled. That is frustrating to the police and it's also frustrating to someone who may be a victim of a crime that everything is an appearance take. Yeah, nobody nobody gets gets booked. What I get that. So absolutely and as you listen to the video, also you hear that apparently she had. This woman had been there some kind of altercation, dame calling, and previous there or somewhere else, but there was something. She had encountered the system a few days or weeks earlier. But anyway. So the call is shoplifting. You see the person who fits the description. This is shoplifting. Now I'm not a police officer, I haven't gone through the training. Perhaps I'm thinking, okay, that's what the call came in for, but maybe there's something else beyond here. Maybe I need to be maybe I need to do something more to dig into this. But that should be hey, we got a call that there's do you somebody exped you shoplift it? What's going on? Exactly right there, you go right there. What's what's going on? Hey, I hear shoplifting. What's what's? What? What's up? Yep, why am I sure? That's a much better intro right there, and you can still okay, I think you can still say that with an attitude. Yep, like Hey said, you shoplift and why am I here? Yep, but you not like what you take. It's a different it's a different kind of it's a different vite immediately. When you do, it's a different it's a different attitude. It's a different kind of attitude, even if it comes out of your mouth with with an attitude right like why am I here? What's going on? To Call? Why am I here? But here's another thing I want to talk about is there's a big push now for officer wellness. We even hear that from the police Accountab they want the officer wellness. So...

...young officer gets out of a car and is verbally accusatory, or perhaps people were contributed as verbally aggressive with someone accused of a route, a relatively, in quotes, minor offense. What is officer wellness? So again, executive debt? Chief Anderson talked in this news converntor we're on officer of wellness and talked about nutrition and sleeping habits. I'm not quite sure where we're going with with that, but I digress. When this officer, when this investigation, this internal investigation, proceeds, because he's on it, you know, administrative duty. Right now. To me, officer wellness would be the question of say you're the officer, so, Matt, what was going on the last couple days before this incident, before you answered this call? What? What? What's going on the last couple days? What's going on in your life? What's going on in wherever? What kind of calls that you have the days before? I mean it's for fifteen or thirty. I think the shift starts. What, two, three, four o'clock. They probably couldn't have been that many calls prior to this. Officer wellness is this call, this response did not happen in isolation. It did not happen in isolation for the woman who was accused, because we heard a conversation about you've been involved in the system before. Yep, it did not happen in isolation with this officer. So what is the PA? What is a pattern? ALLPD can do is control its officers, but what is the pattern that maybe leading to something like this? Where does officer wellness come in? Where you look at what leads up to this, because nothing, nothing just happens right, right, no, I agree with that. And in to know the mental state. I don't want to see a mental state, but to just to know how this officer is, where he's coming from, what the background is on this person. If you know, this is a fifteen time. He said he's got a call to shoplifting. He's just he's just frustrating. He's up, he's had it up to hear. Just knowing things like that can certainly make a difference. I totally agree with you on that. Hey, we want to take a quick break because because we we do that sometimes. But we're going to stay on this topic, beatty, because I want to talk more about like you said, we want to talk about what happened when you got taken down and, you know, with the child, and also even all the way to herd getting the ride home. We're going to talk about all that stuff when we get back, but let's take a quick break so we can give everyone's time to just digest what we just fed to them. Will be well. We here right back. This is inside the margin, inside the margins as sponsored by salvators. For more information on foods offered and locations near you, visit Salvatorscom. Welcome back to you in some at the margins. I'm still here with Patty and we just want to rea. Just want to say thank you very much to our sponsor, salvatories, for sponsoring our show and keeping us on the air. You can go to Salvatoriescom. To find the nearest salvators near you and also see the food offers they're offered as well. So thank you so much to Salaturs. All right, Patty, we're going to continue our discussion on this topic. Again, if you're just joining us, a woman was pepper sprayed after being accused of shoplifting. Well being, well, trying to be, trying to be detained and taken down for questioning, and also her child, unfortunately, witnessed the entire thing because she was there. So we're kind of breaking down that story. So, Patty, we're talking about the initial officer, the first responder if you will, to this instant and how he approached the woman and how the altercation happened and the questions that we're having about if that could have been done better. So let's let's take it from there. So we so we broke down that officer and also the other officers that came later, and also the separating of the child. Let's talk about that first officer. So what do you think happened there? Why would you there's a breakdown there or what's going on with that guy? Well, I think that during the you know, the investigation of the internal investigation and even even afterwards, even, you know, I guess. I would like to think that some of his colleagues at the scene would have said to him, what were you thinking? Now? There are those are those are what were you think are? Here's a four words there could be said. What were you thinking? Right? Boom, slap upside the head, or what were you thinking, you know, and in a calmon way, in the in the moment when his colleagues for around and or when they first saw the video as well and and saw him wherever, you know, they see him down at PSB. Go. What were you thinking? I would hope that internal affairs would say, what were you thinking?...

Right, and we need to we need to change this. Well, it responses could be anywhere from, you know, a detailed thing to you know, I don't know, who know. I don't know right, we don't know, we don't know, but that's where the coaching, I think, needs needs to come in. You ask the officer what were you thinking? What was going through your head? What were you seeing? Let's look at let's let's look, let's go to the video right, like they do on Sports Center or whatever it is, right. Let's please just go let's go to the video. What were you seeing? What did you see? What did you think? We know what you said, we know how you reacted, but what we don't know is what you what you saw going through your hand wrought about what you saw. So to to Mike Mazzio's I'm not going to say defense, but but a point to him. There's body camp footage. There has been for five years now. He says it's been used mostly for punishment and discipline. I don't know that. Taking them in his word for that, but why isn't it used? Is a teaching tool? Is it used at the academy? Do they pull random body CAM footage at the academy and say, okay, class, what do you think about this? Okay class, what do you think about this? What would you do differently? What what would you do the same? I don't know the answers to those questions. If we if we're reimagining public safety and we want that. I hate that word transparency because I think it means I can see right through you. Right, I look at transparency in a negative sense. But if we want to be open and above board with this, why aren't we telling people this is how body came footage is used the academy. We look at it just like just like Tuesday mornings in the NFL. Put It on the screen and we break down the video. Why'd you throw over the Middle? Couldn't you see the whole defense was reading? It is still the Coul overddle. What were you thinking? Right? Next week, guess what quarterback did not throw over the middle. Right in that situation? Why? Why do we expect certain people to be, to be fully formed at their jobs and the only time we talked to them is to be right and punish them and other people who's who are the best at their jobs? We surround them with with people to make them better. Right. What are we thinking? Right? What's wrong with us for that? Who cares if a quarterback or a wide receiver or Alignman? That job doesn't matter in public safety, in the largest scheme of things, why ant we putting those resources to train the people who keep us safe and protect us and deal with us in the public every single day? Right, I agree with that too. You know, that's a great question too, because I think that would be that would be a fanta. And again, I'm not, obviously not a police officer and I had not gone through the training as well, but I think that would be great. Just that, because my opinion is this, and I obviously could be completely wrong, my opinion is they probably show this is a video something bad, this is a video something good, and this is how you should be instead of saying there's a random video of what happened, let you tell us what you think went right and what you think went wrong, and let's discuss this and let's figure out the best ways, the best practice that we could have to make this safest and most efficient for everybody right, and also to ask that guy, what were you thinking? What, as you alluded too earlier, if we're talking about the health of the police officers, was was he having an off day? Was He frustrated? Was this? All I get is shoplifting call after shoplifting call, and I'm just fed up to hear with it. So the next one I'm finally blew my gasket and I'm just like what, what? I'm just what did you? Would you take? Would you take? I can't take this anymore. You don't know the mentality of that police officer, why he came out hot out of the gate like that, but to talk to him and to find out and to coach him and to show him. Hey, listen, there are things this couldn't handled better. Let's talk about this. I don't we are submerged into everyone has come up with their term cancel culture, right, and that's the big catch phrase of the current times. But I think there's some truth of that, Patty. I think a lot of what's happening today is someone makes mistake, they need to be gone. You can't. You can ever try to teach them to get better or just point the mistake out and say, Hey, listen, this is what you did wrong. There are better ways to go about this. Let's work on this, must improve this. We don't do that anymore. It's more like you messed up, you're gone, and I get I get nervous that that's going to be the state of mind for everything. You set this to start the show off, and I could not agree with you more. There's not one person in any job who's not made a mistake. There's not anybody here too. Whatever you do for a living, you probably messed up at some point. And you know, I know I have, and I wasn't fired. You know I was usually I was pulled us up. Hey, Matt, when you work on the board,...

...you not really supposed to push this button here or there. This is this is how you do it. So for the next show, let's get this, get you better for this. And and I learned and I got and I improved. And I'm sure it's your job, patty, that you know some of your earlier stories probably Wan't the best stories in the world. So it's probably coach you to get better than you got better. You became who you are now. That's how, that's how we have all this humans to look at the a person who say man, he messed up, get them out of here. That person has no chance to grow or develop. You know, and God help you who were criticizing and making sure that you want it. You want somebody fired. You know what's going to happen when you're the one who makes a mistake and it and it turns around and gets you right. You know. So with by the sword, died by the sword, Karma, whatever you want to say. I had so. So when I moved from the Sports Department of my previous employer into the features department, it was a huge transition for me. Huge I was used to just writing only on deadline. The editing was basically to make sure they're the only four letter words in there, were the ones that was supposed to be there, you know, things like that. There was not a lot of editing that went on. They didn't get considering. I wrote sports, didn't get much coaching. Went into a whole new department and and, Matt, you're you know, you're right. The first I would say two years was painful. MMM, for everybody, for my editors, for me. There were more than one time I was in tears. No, can I do this? What you know? But the editor that department saw something in me and wanted me on her team. As it says, I was. I was her pound puppy. You know, she went, she went at all. I pop on and rescued me her, but and, you know, and and brought me home. The best editing session I ever had was with the existing editor at that time and we went over everything that was right in that story. See, I get we'd be thinking about that. How important was that for me? And you're doing all the editing times of this is wrong, this is bad. It looked like somebody had bled all over the copy. Right, how important is it to sit down with somebody and says, and I don't even remember the story, I remember like an hour and a half editing section of everything that went right. There you go. Yeah, that was work right, that was an hour and a half of this right in my time. But I remember that. And that's twenty five years later, and I and and so, yeah, what went right. That is equally as important is what goes wrong. Absolutely and and if and if, if it turns out that this officer maybe shouldn't be and again cut out for police work, okay, but if this guy had a bad day because, and I'm making this stuff up as if I tire in the morning, something happened somebody, he didn't the bills and get pick something that set him up or mad, as you said, he's in this, in this, you know, in that section you get a lot of this. Probably the same calls in there as well. We need to know. We saw what happened. We didn't. We don't know why. We don't know why it happened right, and I think that is a big learning that's a learning lesson for all of us, for his colleagues at RPD, for us as citizens, to understand that police or people too, and they get they have bad days, just like we have bad days. And do we want a culture that tries to make the best of people or is just as short tempered with people as that officer appeared to be with a member of the community? What do we want? We're at a point. We want to reimagine public safety. What do we want? Yeah, we I I'm Ahi a hardstance of this petty. I'm so against just throwing people out or just firing all the time. You know, there are there were people. Forget there were times that were a lot worse. If you go back to the S and we're trying to and segregation and trying to, you know, get the equity and equality at that time when things are really tough and you can't get you have to understand that people are molding a certain fashion and you got to try to break habits and get them going in the right direction instead of throwing them out the window, because it's a lot of good people out there. There's a lot of good people out there and watching that one hour and forty eight minutes that transpired on this I saw a lot of good things happening. You mentioned the book reading to the Child. You add the the conversation that that that officer had with the lady. May you know, let me help you out of the car. Are you okay? You know, just just it was a gentler handling. It didn't seem like they weren't just badgering her and being roots or...

...the entire time after she was subdued and interesting if there's a lot of reaching out and trying to understand and talking and trying to figure things out, talking to her, talking people at the store, talking to the bystanders, talking to everybody right, trying to just trying to get a picture of everything. I think that stuff is fantastic. The one thing that and you, and you said it perfectly. The problem is everyone remembers the first impression, right, the very first interaction, is what everyone saw. No one, no one spends the time on all the other stuff that happens afterwards. So all you see is this one guy coming out kind of acting like a jerk, you know, you know, and not not really doing things and I guess a professional not always a professional, a humane manner, an understanding mat of trying to fit instead of being accusatory, just trying to get to the bottom of it. That's and I think that's the that's a difference. There's a there's two ways you can handle it. You can come in accusatory or trying to figure out, okay, what's going like you said, what what's going on? I get I got a call bleshelling. What's going on here? Let's let's sit down. What's happening, right it just get to the bottom of it, you know, and that's fine. If you're if you're if you just want to get to the bottom of it and you want to act that way, that's fine. But coming out there what you're still show me your back kind of think that's that's going to sell the that'sistance of a bad tone. So okay. So here's the lesson for all of us. Right, how many times in our professional or a personal lives do we accuse somebody? How many times have we been that officer? Hmm Right, hasn't been on body camera footage? Right, the whole world hyperbole here, but hasn't for me know what has it. Hasn't seen it. So they're not all talking about us. So what what do we we who, all of you who are going to watch this video? What's the lesson that you're going to take away from it? I know that. I hope the lesson that I'm going to take away from it is when I am angry with somebody or angry with a situation, perhaps that nobody had anything to do with, I'm just angry and now I have to go do something, whether it's work or whatever, that I think for a second. I'm angry about something right now and I can't take it out on the person in front of me right. Good point, you know, and I I just have to I don't know. I don't have the answer to that, but I just hope that all of us look at this video and think of you know, okay, they have, but for the grace of God and a lot of respects. HMM, and that. And how do we, how do we learn from from this officer, what we saw in our in our own work lives and our own privates? We don't take people down, we don't have pepper spray, we don't do that right, but we hurt people. But we hurt people the same way, in a similar way, by our words and our actions, in our short temperedness with people and our assumptions about people. Yeah, Yep, I agree. You know, this is this is reminds me of this and I've been doing radio for a little bit now, but I got other jobs previously, as I've alluded to. I remember one day I went to a one of the jobs that I had and I had a very bad evening, leish just say, and I was already kind of in a pretty bad mood and I had I was working in some sort of sales aspect and you have to write up so you have to write up documents to get to your your people and have them sent them off so the sales can get processed. That I'm not going to get intil the whole thing, but there's there's a process that that that you have to go through. I remember coming into work and I go to my desk and on my seat there's like four or five of those sheets with a bunch of red circled like, you know, the mistakes that I had made putting and I was heated and I yelled at people and yell at the person who circle things and you know the goodness, my boss could tell it. I was already not in the right state of my and so he just said Hey, Matt came here, I want you to go into that commerce room and I want you to have a glass of water and I want you to sit there for a minute and then, after a few minutes, you come in my office and tell me what's going on. He understood that I was already hot. But that goes to your point. I came into work, this person who corrected those documents wasn't didn't have any beef with me. That's they were doing their job and I had to legit. Me made mistakes that I could that. Usually on a regular day, if I saw that, I'm like, Oh man, I messed up, me fix this real quick. But because I was already hot from the night before, I really I took it out on everybody. That had nothing to do with what happened to me to night before, and that can easily happen to anybody. It's hard to separate your personal life from your professional life sometimes, and that's why when you, when you talked earliers, what's going on...

...with this guy, there could have been something deeper. You know, this guy could have been coming off as something that just had him in that that mentality, had him in that moods, that mindset, because so then at something else and I don't know how you, I don't know how you separate your personal life from your professional life. Patty. There are ways that you can do that. There are stretched their techniques, but when you're getting a call and you have to react so fast, especially if you're a police officer, you may not have that kind of time to, you know, stress yourself down and then get to a situation. So I it's it's hard to do to be for me to jump on somebody. Do I set goill think that he handled that inappropriately? I do, but again, there could be more to that story than we know that. That's kind of all I'm trying to say here right and and my point would be that the these we probably running out of time. Where we as it happens every week, is is that in the in the in the in the coaching, in the you know, in the Monday morning quarterbacking that goes that goes into this is find out what that what that was was? Was this just a one off, a bad day? Is this a pattern? Is this more training? What? What is going to prevent this officer from having that reaction again? What's going to prevent other officers from having that reaction and what is going to make every everyone better in this in this situation, and how do we do that? Let's take officer wellness seriously. Let's look at that very broadly, and let's also think that this officer, like all of us, have lived the last year in in an incredible pressure cooker and none of us have escaped that. Whether we realize it or not, we are all we are all carrying the scars from from the past year and however many more months it is. And nothing happens, you know, but Freud said, what nothing? There are no accidents. I will, I will push out of a bit. Nothing happens in isolation. Everything is everything is related to to something or someone. And let's let's work to make this community better, from its policing to to everybody else. And what is it again? What is it we want? What is it we want to see and how do we want to get there? Absolutely correct again, we are getting close to the end and we'll get in it soon, but I just want to elaborate and what you said there. I think everyone wants the same thing. I think we've said that a hundred times to Patty. I think everyone wants anything. They want everyone to be safe. Right. We want the community to be safe and we want the police officer. We say we want the entire surrounding to be safe. So we have to look at everything. We can't just always look at an incident immediately and say these guys are bad, get them out of here. We got to look deeper. Now, like you said, and and I say it too, if it turns out there's a pattern, this is just how he is, then we know whatever happens. If that it happens. But if there's something else going on, we look into that too. We knts jump to conclusions. Just like we if we're given, if we're given this officer a hard time because he jumped to conclusions that she stole something, that we can't be the ones also jumped into conclusions about why this person acted the way they did. We gotta, as Patty, give me this homer excitement. I'll keep a loading to you got to watch the whole video. You can't just watch the first two minutes or you won't understand and, as we know, we're all about information to understanding on this program. All right, Patty, I think we are running out of time, so we did it again. I do I just want you have the word for the day. Complex. Yep, yes, very, very as an accurate word of the day. Take speaking of complex, you know it's not complex. The headlines that Patty and the other people at the many reporter right and if you want to read the full version of those headlines that you may have missed earlier than program make sure you go to the minority reporter not again. That's minority reporter dotnet. You can get the full versions of those headlines that Patty talked about earlier. You will also have the option to subscribe to the paper. You can either get a hard copy or you can a digital version. That's totally up to you. As I said many times, I subscribe to it. I think it's a great way to get your information about your community. So to definitely take advantage of that if you have the means too, and also if you have any questions or comments for the minority reporter, they are willing to listen to those. All you have to do is been an email to editor at minority reporter DOTNET. And if you're tuning in right now and you've missed the show, that's okay. All of the shows, all the past shows, are available on inside the margins, radiocom. You can listen to this one or any other other past ones, or I heartcom or wherever you get your podcast. Patty, what do you think? Should we do...

...again next Monday? I think we should. I think we should a you know, I think you can say wasn't complex. was seeing what you wanted for dinner tonight. Hi, by going to salvadors. That that I thought you say. But thank you. Thank you for the plug for us to appreciate that. Very good though. You're correct. It's very non complex and they even a word, but just whatever. It's not complicated. If you go to Salvatorscom, there's there's a bunch of food otams you can go to, you can choose from for your dinner and if you don't feel like cooking, so go ahead and visit Salterorscom and you can find on the nearest location to you and also what foods are offering. And we also want to thank sal tours again for sponsoring our show. All right, for Petty Singer, this is Matt Wilson. Will see you next time on inside the MARKINS. Do you have a topic that you would like to discussed on inside the margins. We would love to hear from you. Please send your thoughts, comments or questions to inside margins at gmailcom. Inside the margins is sponsored by salvators. I just took a DNA test. Turns out I'm a hundred percent Rochester. That's right, I got seven Hundredzero matches. We are all COOGIE's. I can't wait to shook your hand. Oh wait, I can't, but I can feed you. Salvators famous forum and you touchless delivery. So those thecom.

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