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Inside the Margins
Inside the Margins

Episode 31 · 2 years ago

Daniel Prude and the Protests in Rochester NY

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

On this episode we discuss the death of Daniel Prude while in the custody of Rochester police and the Protests in Rochester NY followning his death.

Marginalized groups can be the target of negative beliefs, behaviors or judgments from others. On this show we seek out marginalized voices and perspectives and tackle some of the conflicts and issues these groups face. Now is the time to have your voice heard. This is inside the margins with your host Matt Wilson. Protesters hit the streets of Rochester, New York for the fifth straight night, with Church members and community elders of the forefront to keep the piece. I don't want the police to spray the young people. I don't want the young people to pro rock. Seven year old Charlie Thompson has a history of fighting for civil rights. She was at the march on Washington in one thousand nine hundred and sixty three. We're trying to appeal to the moral conscious of our authority. Figures in the city. Demonstrations erupted last week after video was released showing Daniel prude's fatal encounter with police back in March. Hello and welcome to another edition of inside the margins. I'm your host, Matt Wilson. A lot of turmoil happening in the city of Rochester after footage of Daniel prude. The way he was, I guess, treated and killed as brought some some controversy in the city also some protest, and we're going to talk about that because I think we have to the something that we have to address, because obviously we would love to see Rochester heel and come back from everything that's been happening and we're going to try to figure out how we can even get to that point. But before we get into that discussion, let's go ahead and bring out the headline news with the minority reporters, daddy singer. Good afternoon, Patty. Hey Man, it's nice to be with you again. Thank you always a pleasure. Right into the headline because we do have an awful lot to talk about in an awful lot of headlines as well. Local candidates seeks to end voter suppression. Should read a Trey Wick, a candidate for the New York State Senate Fifty Sixth District, is loud we speaking out against what she says is voter suppression. Trey Wick has mounted a write in candidacy. The largest minority class joined the ranks of the Rochester Fire Department. Of the thirty recruits who were scheduled to graduate on September two. Thirteen of those are black, nine are Latino and one of those recruits is Asian. Two of them are female, including one Latina. The Police Accountability Board is looking to fill a spot after a second resignation. L August, Michael Powell sent a letter to city council president or at a Scott and to PAB chairwoman Shawnny Wilson that he was resigning because of his school schedule. In June, Jonathan dollhops and an oute to city council that he could not continue because of what he termed personal reasons. Danielle Tucker was named to replace Dollhof and Powell will need to be replaced. Racism is a public health crisis. What are we going to do? The Black Agenda Group has declared public health crisis because of racism and says that the importance of that crisis is crucial to being addressed. The Black Agenda Group held a meet up, socially distant meet up, on August. Twenty three covid nineteen precautions were added to the list of Labor Day weekend preparations. Monroe County Health Commissioner, Dr Michael Mendoza urged people to be cautious about gatherings and about being lacks the precautions to prevent the spread of covid particularly with school starting in the community. The city wants a law requiring new police officers to live in Rochester. Rochester joined upstate movement of Buffalo and Syracuse to...

...ask their state delegation to have the state allow local laws which would allow residency requirements for new police recruits. Low income tenants can get free legal help and eviction proceedings the right to council. Pilot project was announced by the Justice For all coalition and will give you account of three, two one. To grab a pen and write down this phone number. Five, eighty five five, zero four six one nine five, five eight five, five zero four six, one hundred and ninety five to learn more about that pilot project. In editorial if a Williams writes about the doll experiment, scientific research that was done in the ight s by black psychologist Dr Kenneth Clark. Experiment on where they ask black children ages six to nine to choose between black and white dolls that were the same except skin color and e. f a Williams writes about the effect of that experiment even today. Caim Mitchell in the Biz quiz answers the question that someone has a small service business with about twenty regular customers. Everything is going well, but the owner wants to tweak some current services and offer new ones, but I'm not sure which one's customers will like. How can the business owner do that out that? Thank you so much, Patti, as always. And as always, if you want the full versions of the headlines that pay just told you about, make sure you visit the minority reporter Dotnet and you get the full versions of those headlines that you just heard as well. You can subscribe to the minority reporter. There's an option to do that. You can need a digital version or you need a hard copy if you'd like. We allso. We always suggest that you support local journalism and if you want stories that matter to you, the minority reporter as as definitely a great option for you. So definitely check that out and subscribe if again, and also if you visit our site at inside the margins Radiocom, you can hear this episode or any past episodes of all of our shows, and you can also find the podcast versions of these shows on iheartcom or wherever you get your podcast. All right, we're going to take a quick break and when we come back we will talk about what's been happening right here in Rochter as far as protests and police violence. This is inside the margins. Will be right back. Welcome back to inside the margin. That's Matt and I'm here with patty singer from the minority reporter. And so turns out before there was a George Floyd, there was a Daniel prude here in Rochester, New York. Footage of what happened with Mr Prude recently came out. The situation happened back in March. He's a he was mentally ill and having some issues, and the I will warn you if you've not seen the footage jet and it's quite disturbing. So if you are turned off by seeing those kind of things, perhaps it's better for you to read about it, but if you do want to the videos out there so you can watch exactly what happens, it is it's quite disturbing. And again this is a a person who was having mental health issues. He went too strong, I believe, to have those issues kind of checked out and normally the I hear that they hold you for seventy two hours. But he was released shortly afterwards and his brother called the police to have some assistance, you know, for him, because obviously his brother knew that he was not well and it turned again in the videos. Is quite disturbing and it looks like his life was ended by the police and that has reinvigorated the the protest and unfortunately writing here in Rochester as well. And now we are here, Patty, and it looks like it looks...

...like it's a restart of the bad situations that happened with George Floyd. Right, we're here, and where where do we go? Right? Where do we want to end? Well, I think. I think where we want to end up is a community where everybody feels safe, everybody can have their concerns heard, everybody can feel listen to. It's not going to mean everything is solved the way everybody wants it to be, but do we have a community that is safe for however you want to define safety. We have a community that is safe for everybody. I don't know what that's a utopian world or not, but I know I want to feel safe. I would imagine, Matt, you want to feel safe. Yes, I would. Anybody many sort of you know, state of mind or being wants to be able to feel safe. How do we get there? What does that look like? I don't know that I'm hearing yet those conversations. I don't know that we heard them back in May. I don't know that we've we've really heard them after Christopher pay you know, after other other instances. We can hmm the safety look like. How do we get there? From what I've seen of videos and saw of a demonstration that I was at last Thursday at the church on Clarissa Street, that there's no safety here yet for anybody. Yeah, it's a tough situation and I think we, you and I, earlier we were kind of talking, we were kind of talking about this and you know, it would. It seems that when the information about George Floyd came out, protesting start turning to riots. Unfortunately, the rioting kind of subsided. It was generally just protesting. After that wasn't too much violence, and then this kind of this kind of started it again, you know, and it's it's obviously reactionary. There's no question about that. Obviously, every time there's footage about something which is a disturbing to watch. If you if you happen to watch the George Floyd Video, which I unfortunately did, also something very disturbing to watch, watching the knee pressed on his the back of his neck and watching him, you know, the life kind of lead his body. And this video is very similar, and I'll be this guy is naked in thirty three weather, in the cold, not not really being treated the way he should. I'm sure these caught, these these police were not trained in how to handle a mentally unhealthy person anyways. So he was not treated appropriately and again you can see his life pretty much ending in by means that that were not appropriate. So people are overtaken with emotion and when that happens, that's when a few people can lead what would normally be peaceful astray into writing. And I was just doing some research, and I think I show this to you earlier, to Pellet Patty. It was from the US crisis monitor from acled. They track pros that they track rioting and protest and unrest like that, and ninety three percent of protesting is not violent, and that kind of goes what I like, what I was saying. It like with George Floyd it was violent that it wasn't for a while and now it is again. So for the most part usually it's okay, but once that emotion, that emotion is triggered, that's when things tend to go into that that bad area once again. Or opportunistic. So right, it will give people a couple seconds grab something to right with a seeled Datacom so o case. Thank you for decom there's a whole long you are out here, but that...

...should get you. Then if you if you go to the search and go demonstrations, critical violence two thousand and twenty, you'll get what we're talking about. But that's the main the main site, and it has it. I want to talk about this for about ure forty five because it's interesting. It maps out a lot of where unrest is. But maybe I'm technologically ignorant here, but it didn't strike me as I was clicking, that these maps were interactive and blowing up so you could see really close, because if you look at the map of the country and you'll see the looks like there's some serious dots around Rochester, New York. But I don't know somebody who's better that that. I am. So I gave you the URL. Can Look at this and click on this and blow this up and see really where we're standing. You know where we fall on this map right, right Tuis because it looks from the the smaller type, that there are riots and protests here in Rochester, the degree of them, the number of them. I would wish this map would be a little more easily interactive what was going on. But the point that this this makes is that the country is in a state of unrest heading into the election. So, you know, I try not to be a conspiracy theorist, but you know, I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard from Donald trump yet, in a sense, because of what's happened in other parts of the country. He is talked about sending in federal troops. We know the president and the governor are not part of the mutual admiration society. Best Friends, probably the same, you can say that. Yeah, so you'll. My fear is that if, if the organizers of the protests, how do I want to say this, if we continue to see violent protests, the matter may be taken out of all our hands. That is not going to be helpful. That is going to be this worse. So there's so much controversy around this math. There is there is the manner in which Danuel proved died, right. So the medical examiner has called that homicide. How much is not necessarily equal murder? I think there are. There are some technical terms that I don't know that many of us outside of the the medical and legal community are really familiar with. But a homicide. Homicide isn't is what happens. Murder is a charge. Right now, no charge, so to say. He was murdered. I don't know if that shorthand for people. Or people think homicide equals murder, like if they think they're synonymous. There's a bit of a difference there. One can lead to the other, but it's not automatically the same thing. So so there's there's the manner in which he died in it's called in custody death. That's he there was an issue with how the police handled that, probably from the GECKO. There are also our issues of how he came to be on that street. You mentioned that. Normally you understand that people were held for a period of time. March twenty three. Right. I'm not saying any of this to excuse anything that happened. I want to just provide some context from all the people I've spoken to in the past week and brought this to my attention. What happened on March twenty two? Are you? I'm sorry, were you're asking me. There's a dead arrogant I up so much. What what happened on March twenty two, so I believe. Isn't that when Mr Prude went to the hospital? Now, March forty two. New York one on pause. Oh, I'm sorry, yes, I apologize. Okay, so this this unfortunate gentleman comes to Rochester for whatever reason, to see his brother and one of the mayor's press conferences they talked about he. You know, the system failed him from the get Goo. On March twenty two, the...

...governor puts New York on pause because everybody is in a panic about this virus that nobody knows much about. Right. Remember, Rochester has its first case. I'm I think March eleventh or something like that, so we've only been dealing with covid for two weeks. He goes to hospital. The hospitals are feeling that like they're going to be overrun by this people. What? What are we doing so. We're in the midst of Covid this man, who obviously needs care, goes to a hospital which may or may not at that time have been prepared to handle an onslaught of covid cases, let alone influx potentially with with mental health. So there are there are failures all along the way here. So he's kept for a couple hours. was that because of a fear of covid? We don't know. Haven't really heard from the hospital. Because of hipp apparently. I read in another media report that they're trying to get the family to wave hippus so they can talk about it. So he doesn't. It appears he's not getting the care that he needs the hospital for whatever reason. We don't know that reason. He's on the street. He's in distress. You're right. Police come upon him and they're not really prepared to necessarily deal with what they're facing from a mental health standpoint. Plus, it's her that the man is talking about coronavirus. This is this is a week after the virus hits Rochester. There's a lot of fear then about the virus and these officers said are ask him, do you have to have covid because they don't know what probably don't know what to do at that point if he says yes, right. I mean it was put to me that on lunch. Twenty three covid was like HIV back in the s. You had no idea, you and you were afraid of it. So there's all this going on with officeters who are who are young, who are relatively new, who are encountering a situation where they don't get a probably whole lot of mental health training, if much at all, and dealing with with somebody in distress who's calling out, give me your gun, I want to grab your gun. There's a lot happening there. Again, this is not to excuse anything, this is to provide some some context to this. They want to do a mental hygiene arrest. They're calling the ambulance. Hollowns it take the ambulance to get there. What's what? How well the ambulance people trained to deal with a mental health situation? So a lot of this is all coming back to what people have been talking about really since the opioid crisis almost four or five years ago now. How do we respond to mental health? Yeah, I respond in a crisis and hot you know, what met? How do we respond to mental health right now today, when people are stressed by seeing everything that's happened in the past five days from this right? No, I agree mental health and I know we've discussed it a few times on our show, and so this is this is kind of the way I look at it, because I actually have been bought on a few shows and I'm talked about this a little bit and a lot of times what happens is people look at look at this incident from the focal points where the view of the officer, they're you're trying to say, okay, if I was the officer, what would I have done? I did my lens did not go there immediately. My Lens went through the Lens of prudes brother. Can you imagine if you were this man's brother and you solve this so so I imagine, not as an officer, imagine, and don't even put yourself into Daniel prudes shoes. Put yourself in the situation of the brother, because I do have mentally,...

...mentally and you know people with mental issues in my family. So I came from it from the viewpoint of Danuel prude. Daniel prude called the cops told them he wanted them to help his brother because he was having issues. So Daniel, prude brother, was calling to have his brother helped and that ended up with his brother dead and this guy set outside in thirty degree weather naked the entire time, no blanket, no anything. So that's that's the that's the eyes, the view lent, the lenses that I'm I'm looking at is if you were prudes brother and you saw this, how that make you feel? Know that they're really there aren't words to there are words for that, right. Can you imagine calling the police to help your family member and after you make that call, your family member ends up dead because you called the cops to help him? Can you imagine that? You know, you're absolutely you're absolutely right that that is yeah, and and you know, when I call the police, where when you call the police? Right, we think that we think there's going to be it may not be the resolution we want, but we don't think it's going to be a tragic resolution, right, and so that's why I say I there's no I get the emotion. Everyone's been on an emotional roller coaster as it is anyways, with everything that's been happening right floyd and and the other gentleman that was Jacob Blake, who was shot in the back recently. It seems like there's one after another. Something just keeps happening, and so here's and I kind of it was hitting to this earlier we were talking. I don't think we need to get rid of police. That I'd be that's never been my standpoint. But I also am in defense of protest because again, for if you just go throughout history of this country, period in order to get things changed, it usually starts off with protesting the right form in a vote, the silver rights movement in the S, all that stuff happened because of protests. Those things start movements that make things better. So I will never tell you anyone yet you shouldn't protest. So that's that is ridiculous. Protests should be allowed. But just like the officers who do these terrible things make police in general look bad, the rioting that happens makes good protests that are usually peaceful overall, look bad as well. So what we have to do as we have to find that mill ground. We have to find out, okay, there's obviously problems on both ends. There's that we have police issues right now and we have issues with the riots that they are up and right now, and you you said it earlier when we were kind of talking off are. The problem is the correct discussions aren't happening, the ones where we try to find ways to actually come up with real resolutions. It's been acknowledge that there's a problem and I think everyone kind of now knows as a problem. Some people probably want to deny there's a problem, but there's there is a problem, whether you whether you're on this leave the end of the fund the police, or if you're someone like me who thinks training is real good training is certainly needed. I was that's kind of where I stand. We have to kind of kind of do like a read you like almost like a new coach coming to a football team and kind of throwing out the old playbook and saying, okay, we got to come up with a new playbook of how to do things. I think that's what I think needs to happen. But you who's listening right now? You could be anywhere, but the fact is something has to happen and we have to go we have to move in that direction. Now where we're talking about how do we come to an end so people won't need, people won't be overwhelm with the motion and feel the need to take to the streets...

...and let the let the bad people who maybe take it too far, turn what could be a piece of the demonstration is something bad. And, like you said, Patty, now everyone's afraid everyone. People don't want to come to the city anymore. People are afraid to call the police, everyone's afraid to do anything and that's where we're at right now and it's not a good place. So let me want to hit a couple points that you you talked about peaceful versus violent protests. So Rochester Police Department released video from September. Third we was a was Thursday night. What happened out in front of the public safety building. They released about a five minute clip. Different different views of what happened. So there are people who show up wearing some kind of chest protection. I don't know if they're bullet prove best or whatever, but some kind of some kind of you know, Thoracic Protection Right, sort of like respirator gas masks, not just a man, not just a covid protection mass, but something that you would filter are right. Some helmets, if you're going to go to a rally. Do you need that for a rally or you preparing for something far more contentious than a rally? The other thing in one of the one of the clips that are PD sent out, and is it all over other media, so you can you can see this. There's a there's a young person who is taking a running start at the those little barricades. To me see more, you know, the metal sort of stanchins that they haven't that they put out for proud control and traffic and things like that, making a running start at it and crashing into it. He's got some chest protection on and a kind of a helmet, but that to me takes a turns a rally or a protest into into a riot. When people were dressed like that and they're going and they are attacking the barricade, you see the police are standing back until people start shaking the barricade or running into it. Then they come out and you see the pepper spray and people run back. So so there's that. Ask Me of it. The protests are have also involved the mayor and the police chief for the issue of I think this was probably on. This may have been the Watergate line. You know, what did you know and when did you know it? So there's a timeline here that for a lot of people's not adding up. This happens the encounter with the police's march twenty three. Mr Proved is pronounced dead on March thirty. So I'm bad at math, but we don't hear about this until what, the last day of August, the first day of Sepcember, your days ago? Right, yeah, right. So there's a lot of intervening time this apparently. Apparently the mayor is saying that the police chief told her there was a situation where somebody had overdosed in custody. There was no mention of force being used. That's what the mayor what the mayor said in a news conference. There's the issue of wide in the city. Talk about this. Well, city was saying at one point that they were advised by the Attorney General's office, who was investigating this based on the governor's executive order from two thousand and fifteen. Eric Ghner, and I'm confusing you people deliberately, because a lot of people watching this of following this close we are being confused by this. If you're scratching your head and saying slow down, explain this. This is what people were trying to untangle, to figure out a timeline. Who Knew what? When? Why wasn't something said earlier? The city said, well, we were under the impression from the attorney, from...

Assistant Attorney General, that investigations going on. We can it, we can't do ours. That is since come out with the Attorney General, which Sha James. It Says No, you can do your investigation. We encourage it. That's got a few people scratching their heads about who knew what went so the protests or are are part of it? Is Mr proved was treated horribly? Is probably an understatement. But who knew what? Why did we know about this? Yeah, and why do we find you at it now? And why do we seem to have there? Seem to be, you know, the expressions on the flooring under the bus, fingers pointing what. What is happening with that? Are People getting the real story? That can make people angry. Personally, I do not believe that anger has to cross into violence. No, it's, I think, over being overly emotional. I think at some point emotion is counterproductive in our personal lives and in our social lives. We need emotion, but there is a point where it will hurt us. And as I say this I'm thinking in my own life where being only emotional has hurt me, and I think that maybe people were listening to that and thinking in their own lives. Their emotions have clouded what was what was in their best interest. There hurt, their emotion, their anger God in the way, and I don't want to see that happen for city because we may reach a point where we can't come back right. And, just like you're saying, I definitely agree with people who want answers and demand answers. That's natural. You should want answers and demand answers, especially the way this looks like. You, you see, you actually kind of let that out perfectly. Someone was we don't know exactly who, but someone obviously was not out right honest with what was happening. Someone was trying to kind of hide something or keep something under the rug, so to speak. So people kind of want to know why. Why? Why are we just doing about this now and when this happened months ago? He's, like I said, even even before George Floyd Right. So it's it's it's weird. That that that would happen. Someone obviously saw this or knew how this went down. So why wasn't action taken at that point to figure out exactly how, why this had to happen the way it did? That's why you're right. That's that's it's not just the depth of Daniel prue that people are upset about. They're upset about that it's now September and just literally just days ago, we are being made aware that this happened. So what? Why? Why? and that should upset everybody. Some someone somewhere knows the reason why, but we don't know why and we may never know why, and that's that's fusially. But you're also right, just portion of for the family, because you know the family. The family put this out. The family hired a lawyer and the lawyer sent us out to the media to to, you know, to write about this, maybe because it wasn't forthcoming again that that I don't know. But I want to go to the training after for a second, because you and I agree on this that whoever is out for public protect public safety needs to be well prepared and well trained. I think we're in agreement on that. So the training on this and the and the police union president explain the training and you can say what you want about your feelings about the locust club. It's a a labor union. Like all unions, has its membership at heart wants due process for its members, just like all what all unions do. So he addressed the training. These officers had had training, I think he said thirty, forty days prior to this incident. The training comes from the state. If a police officer deviates from training, he or she is subject to discipline. So officers have to follow their training. The...

...training was review according to the Union, the training, the training was reviewed and the way the officers followed the training was reviewed. He said that it was. It was deemed that the officers followed their training. Remember, an officer can't deviate from the training. In one of the statements, in a statement from one of the officers, he says that when he noticed that Mr prudes breathing changed, he he really axed. He I don't have it right in front of me, but basically he let off whatever pressure he had had on him, called the ambulance people over to you know, oh on a side do do things that they do when people were breathing distress on handcuffed them. Let them do the what the ambulance people do what they needed to do. So he was monitoring what was happening with this individual with Mr Proud throughout that time. But if, and this is what the union president said, that if the training, he called for review of the training protocols. If the training is bad, the training has to change because if the officer goes off script, deviates from that, that officer is then subject also. I get that, but what do you do about that? Right, this officer is in that situation. This is what they told us to do to stabilize a person who is in this kind of distress. I'm doing the training. This is going sideways. Here see what but here's my question on that that we're kind of running short on time. Be Fourth word a break, but this is my question, though. So when this human compassion come into it? Because, okay, we can talk about this drink, the the officiation and its remulation, but there's a man with no clothes on, sitting in the snow and thirty degree weather. Where's think the best you of putting a jacket or blanket on this guy? I have asked that question to contacts. I have unofficial contacts. I have at URPD. They don't carry blankets in their car us. Here's my question. Once the ambulance people show up, don't they have something in the rig just asking. I'm just I'm still baffled because I've seen, I've seen police officers. I mean I'm not saying by film, I'm saying firsthand witnessed. Have seen police officers put a jacket or coat on people when they are when they're questioning, when and they're all Sright in the coal I've seen it happen. So you would think somebody would have no. Nobody there has a jacket or anything in any of their vehicles. Nothing. I'm just going to offer this. I'm not there. I don't know. I'm just going to offer this. It is the day after the governor shuts down the state because of a virus. There's a conversation with this person, I believe on the video, I can't recall it right now, he says he's saying he has coronavirus. There are other things happening to that person as this encounters, even before the physical hands on encounter is is happening. You. You're right, you can't argue with that. You want to do that. But again, I just put it in the I just put it in the context. Does it sound like I'm excusing his behavior? Know it does it. It's just I'm thinking about what would I do if, so I came upon somebody the day after a andemic is declared and I've got somebody obviously in mental distress and I am not trained to handle that and I just because I'm not here to each train to handle the mental aspect of it. And and and what do I do? In meanwhile, the person is calling because he wants to grab my gun. I, like I said, we that that's what we have to get the break soon. But yeah, it's still, I think just me. This is me personally. I'm talking about me and everyone can feel a different way, but me personally, I...

...don't care what you have. If it's thirty degrees in snowing, I'll say in your butt naked, I'm probably going to try to Puss. I won't, I won't take it back, I'll bay. I might even burn the quote the clothing afterwards, but I'll put something on you. I'm not gonna let you sit butt naked and thirty your weather, in the snow. I there's no way I could. I would see myself doing that, regardless of situation. That's just me, though. You. That was the first question I had. Was the first question I asked people I talk to. I said, why don't they? Why didn't they do something to to cover hand in the street? I'm not there, I don't know. You're right and I would I would try to do the same thing. That's a question a lot of people are asking and you can ask that question all the way up to when he's put in the ambulance. There's a lot of people who could have done something about it. Absolutely. I like I said when we first started talking about this, it's started. For me, it starts way in beginning when he first went to the hospital. Why was he I understand the cold thing, but if if some one's an obvious like extreme mental arrest, you know, a couple hours, I think that that that wasn't enough. Obviously it wasn't enough. All right, Patty, we have to go to break. I always appreciate it. I know this is definitely a difficult conversation for anyone to have because it's a lot of questions that remain unanswered and we're all waiting for answers, and who knows what kind of answers will ever get on these things. All right, and it's going to take a while, and that's the other thing. People want this now and I understand that, I get it, but we're not going to get the answers as quickly as we want, or if we ever get the actual answers. All right, thank you so much, Patty. Don't forget, you can check out the stories, the full version of the stories that you heard during the headline news on the minority reporter Dotnet, and also you will have the option to subscribe there, so I definitely suggest you do so. The stories are always local and always things about you know, about topics that matter to you in this community. Patty, always a pleasure you're talking to you, Matt, and it's you know, these are hard times and I'm glad that we can have these conversations and I know we agree more than we disagree, but I think it's important that that you and I can share our perspectives and when we disagree, do it in a way that we respect each other absolutely. Now it's okay. It's okay to disagree, as long as you try to understand where each side's coming from, and that's what we try to do here. Thank you so much, Patty. Will be right back. I'll have some final thoughts. This is inside the margins. Welcome back to inside the margins. Okay, some final thoughts. This is this is a difficult situation and the problem I think that we have is everyone always wants to look at it from the cops point of view. Everyone's always trying to look at okay, because, you know, everyone wants to respect officers and that's the way they look at it. So they look at it as if, you know, the cops had no other alternative or the because of the way they were told that they had to hand a situation. But this is what I want you to do. Don't look at it from the cops point of view. Look at it from Daniel prudes brothers point of view. That's how we should all look at this. Can you imagine if your Daniel prudes brother and you send your mentally ill brother to the hospital to get the help he needs and he is released within hours and the staff, they're allegedly you're joking about how fast they let him go? So you're still worried because you know that you're your brother's facing a mental episode. I need some help, so you call the cops, you call the police officers to perhaps help you get control of your brother and get him the help he needs. And though, those people that you have called to help your brother kill him. They kill him. Your call...

...to the cops was your brother's death sentence. Think of that. That's right, I had the palms because I want you to think about that. Don't think of it as all the cops did, having in an alternatively, that the all these other excuses. Think of the fact that if you knew that your brother had a mental illness and was going through a mental episode and you have been trying all day to get him the helping needs from the hospital and the police, and neither of them helped. In fact, one of them actually killed him, how would you feel? This hits hard because I, like I said, I have mentally ill family members. My aunt worked in an apartment for the majority of her life that helped mentally ill children and adults. My wife works in an industry where she helps people with addiction problems. You know what, when they come in and they're unruly and they're going through an episode or they're high on something. Guess what, neither my aunt or my wife or any of the staff there has ever killed anybody because of it, because they know what they're doing. They know how to approach this the situation. They know that these people are not trying to be violent, not trinity unruly. They are going through something and they need help. They don't need a law on order, they need help, and that's the problem I have with that whole law and order thing. Law and order is not always which you need. Sometimes people just need assistance and you can't assist people when they're mentally ill and their neckd running in the streets and you cuff them and throw them on the on the concrete that is thirty degrees outside and snowing, and you don't give them any clothing, you don't give him any blankets, you put a spit shield over his face and you smother him to death. That's not helping anybody. That's hurting you, that's hurting the department, that's hurting the family of Daniel prude and, as you can see, that is hurt this city and that's where we are now. That's how you need to think about the situation I'm at. Will soon. Will see you next week. This is inside the margins. Do you have a topic that you would like to discussed on inside the margins? We would love to hear from you. Please send your thoughts, comments or questions to inside margins at gmailcom.

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